New Covid Vaccine

ohanzee

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That is so obviously wrong.

I think you established that.

I can't find a current reliable number for blood clot fatalities from vaccination....32 in the UK as of 22 Apr 2021 is the best I can do.

"129'000 dead in the UK from covid, 32+? directly from vaccine, those are pretty acute chances."
 

kingf000

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I think you established that.

I can't find a current reliable number for blood clot fatalities from vaccination....32 in the UK as of 22 Apr 2021 is the best I can do.

"129'000 dead in the UK from covid, 32+? directly from vaccine, those are pretty acute chances."
I've tried to find data on the number of fatalities following the vaccine. Although the data on fatalities due to covid are widely disseminated, the fatality data on the covid vaccine is very hard to find. Lots of links to covid databases but when you go to them, nothing. I can find some data on the number of serious adverse events reported with the vaccines, very low (0.00036%), but that is not the same as deaths. The one media report, access was blocked through Google! Deaths have occurred, mainly in the elderly with underlying health problems, ie the same who are most at risk from covid. I can understand not wanting to put people off having the vaccine but it gives the conspiracy theorists a field day by not making the data available.
 

easker1

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not much good at providing links I will try to get it , the only way that the vaccination would prevent pregnancy is if you get the Jab while having sex, so don't do it, easker1
 

matt808

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I think you established that.

I can't find a current reliable number for blood clot fatalities from vaccination....32 in the UK as of 22 Apr 2021 is the best I can do.

"129'000 dead in the UK from covid, 32+? directly from vaccine, those are pretty acute chances."
Well 32 from 129,000 sounds pretty bad to me. A bit different from 'not a single death atrributed to the vaccine', eh?
 

matt808

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There have been deaths following vaccination, no more than statistically normal within the number vaccinated so I can't see why you would say it's not true, who has died as a direct result of vaccination?
This sounds like the 'deaths within 30 days of catching covid-must mean they died of covid'.
 

ohanzee

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This sounds like the 'deaths within 30 days of catching covid-must mean they died of covid'.

The percentage was the same as you would expect in that number in normal circumstances without covid, there was no 'extra' deaths as it were.

This is because the number dying from blood clots was so low in terms of the numbers vaccinated.

There is a tiny percentage of people who have developed blood clots, no more than you would expect in normal circumstances however, the one single bit of data that strikes me as interesting is that the percentage of deaths from blood clots was significantly higher with the Astrazenica vaccine, far lower with Pfizer.

What you need to compare is the number of deaths from blood clots(I'm not aware of any other causes of death) per total, with the number of lives saved as a result of being vaccinated, the fact that deaths have dropped dramatically should be enough to tell you which is the safer route, if that is not enough just look carefully at the hospital stats for unvaccinated covid sufferers, remaining unvaccinated is susceptibility in perpetuity.

If I was wary I'd be going for the Pfizer vaccine, at 58 years old my chances of surviving the vaccine are higher than surviving covid...by a pretty vast margin.
 

kingf000

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try to postthe link to the new Vaccine https://www.reuters.com/business/he...ound-that-helps-identify-covid-19-2021-07-19/ hope this works King foo cheers easker1
This states that the vaccine is now being tested for the first time in humans, ie. Phase 1 clinical trials. That is a long way from approval for marketting.

"Intranasal vaccine aims to block virus at point of entry

An experimental intranasal COVID-19 vaccine now being tested for the first time in humans showed promising results in monkeys, researchers will report on Thursday at ASV 2021, the annual meeting of the American Society of Virology. The protection provided to the primates by a single dose of the vaccine from Meissa Vaccines was equivalent to the protection provided by currently authorized vaccines, according to a news release from the company. Like injected vaccines, the intranasal vaccine, which is administered via drops or spray into the nose, stimulates the body to produce antibodies that circulate in the blood. But the intranasal vaccine also stimulates production of antibodies on mucosal surfaces that line the airways, which is where the virus first makes contact and enters the body, the research team reported in a paper seen by Reuters and submitted for posting ahead of peer review on the bioRxiv preprint server. The pilot study in humans, which got underway in March, is expected to enroll 130 volunteers to evaluate the safety, tolerability and immune system effects of various doses of the vaccine. Once it selects a safe dose likely to be most effective against the virus, the company will need to conduct larger and more rigorous trials. "We believe Meissa's intranasal COVID-19 vaccine has the potential to be an important part of the endgame solution to contain SARS-CoV-2," Roderick Tang, chief scientific officer of Meissa Vaccines, said in a statement."
 

Paul_B

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Well 32 from 129,000 sounds pretty bad to me. A bit different from 'not a single death atrributed to the vaccine', eh?

The BBC ought to have mentioned how many of the younger generation show mild symptoms then go get long Covid with according to some specialists can/could lead to permanent heart and vascular problem.

However we still have those whom walk amongst us who think the MMR, Polio, TB, Smallpox etc vaccines weren't necessary,

My Youngest early 30s has had both Oxford AstraZeneca jabs as she considered it safer to have the jabs than wait for the Pfizer one.
 

kingf000

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Well 32 from 129,000 sounds pretty bad to me. A bit different from 'not a single death atrributed to the vaccine', eh?
You shouldn't be comparing the 32 to 129,000. The comparison that should be made is 32 deaths to the 83M doses given, ie 0.3 deaths per million jabs. This compares with covid, which has had 129,000 deaths from 5.6M people infected, or 23,000 deaths per million; 77,000 times higher. Even if the number of people having been infected is a factor of 4 fold too low, that still means 5,570 deaths per million.
You also need to factor in that the cause of the deaths from the vaccine are now known are avoidable, so the mortality rate for the vaccine will go down in time. So will the mortality rate for covid, because of the effectiveness of the vaccine!
 

kingf000

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it must be nice to be intelligent KF, we must wait for your contribution, easker1
Nothing about intelligence, simply that I know the difference between approval for first time in man and approval for marketing.
 

Hardrar

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Didn’t they just dramatically reduce this time with the vaccines to get them “out there” swiftly? Maybe they’ll do this with a nasal vaccine?
I was surprised tbh when they went down the injectable route, as all the successful Porcine and Bovine RSVs are administered by a Nasal inhaled vaccine, which educates the pulmonary tissues, to fight off infectious virus at entry point.
They also tend to have far less side effects than injectable vaccines.
 

kingf000

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Didn’t they just dramatically reduce this time with the vaccines to get them “out there” swiftly? Maybe they’ll do this with a nasal vaccine?
I was surprised tbh when they went down the injectable route, as all the successful Porcine and Bovine RSVs are administered by a Nasal inhaled vaccine, which educates the pulmonary tissues, to fight off infectious virus at entry point.
They also tend to have far less side effects than injectable vaccines.
They have reduced the time but they still have to go through the process of first time in man to ensure the nasal spray is safe and, if possible, incorporate different doses to find the optimum dose for progression to Phase II/III studies. It may now take longer as there are already effective vaccines out there, so unless there is a really great advantage in efficacy, the regulatory authorities may well drag their feet.
There have been reports on the current vaccines being investigated as nasal sprays but I haven't seen any results. If they work, it is likely that they will reach the market before any new vaccine, as product line extension is much simpler and quicker

 
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easker1

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I shouldn't have posted this , it wasn't to start an argument , I am proud of what my D-in-Law has done, she says it is in full production and is being rolled out in the US, the family have all had it, and thats good enough for me, easker1
 

kingf000

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I shouldn't have posted this , it wasn't to start an argument , I am proud of what my D-in-Law has done, she says it is in full production and is being rolled out in the US, the family have all had it, and thats good enough for me, easker1
This isn't anything about what your D-in-Law has done. She, like a lot of other scientists throughout the world, have and are doing brilliant work in the fight against covid and everyone should be proud of these achievements. What this is about is truth. It is impossible that what you say is true. The eyes of the world are on the development status of new covid vaccines and every new development is widely publicised. Something as revolutionary as a nasal vaccine would be spread across every media source in the world. That has not happened. The company that you quoted says the nasal spray is still in early stage development. The link to Reuters that you included says the same thing. The link below is the definitive summary of all covid vaccines in development and approved, produced by the Regulatory Professional Affairs Society, the professional body of the Regulators who approve clinical trials and marketing. On Page 7 of the candidates in development the Meissa vaccine is listed as being in Phase 1. There is also no nasal spray vaccine listed in the Regulatory approved vaccines for general use.


So who do I believe, you or the rest of the world?

In something as complicated as this, it is very easy to get the wrong end of the stick. I put it to you that you have misunderstood what your D-in-Law has told you.

I'm sure nasal spray vaccines will be available in the future, just not now
 

ohanzee

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Is a nasal spray that you can pick up from the pharmacy or get at the GP the future of covid vaccination? I can see some advantages coupled with some sort of covid passport.
 

kingf000

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Is a nasal spray that you can pick up from the pharmacy or get at the GP the future of covid vaccination? I can see some advantages coupled with some sort of covid passport.
Unlikely. Allowing anyone unfettered access to spray it up their nose when and as often as they feel like would be, potentially, far too dangerous. The polio vaccine became available on a sugar cube but was never rolled out for general use. Where it is likely to have a big impact is in the far flung regions of the world, where the use of a spray would be much simpler than the use and disposal of needles. Also those who suffer from trypanophobia, fear of needles, would find this more acceptable.
 

ohanzee

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Unlikely. Allowing anyone unfettered access to spray it up their nose when and as often as they feel like would be, potentially, far too dangerous. The polio vaccine became available on a sugar cube but was never rolled out for general use. Where it is likely to have a big impact is in the far flung regions of the world, where the use of a spray would be much simpler than the use and disposal of needles. Also those who suffer from trypanophobia, fear of needles, would find this more acceptable.

Administered/supervised by GP/pharmacy, one shot kit, if not for all of the population it would certainly appeal to some as an alternative to needles.
 

Hardrar

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Human trials are under way via Oxford Uni already, but only trials, no approval, possibly that’s the situation with dtl, they have put themselves forward as volunteers?
 

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