New world record Brown ? 46.9lb

easker1

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Just saying, as a Brown trout , it resembles nothing like any of the Brown trout pics you have posted Col,even your Loch Corrib ferox is more of a brownie type than the 1st post, but then I've never fished in NZ and probably never will, I can't see any thing in that trout that resembles any brownie, the I have ever caught, we can argue 'till the Cows come home, ( but only if you have cows?) I will now retreat into my narrow world of ignorance,what sort of trout farms are there in those canals ? easker1
 

Cap'n Fishy

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Just saying, as a Brown trout , it resembles nothing like any of the Brown trout pics you have posted Col,even your Loch Corrib ferox is more of a brownie type than the 1st post, but then I've never fished in NZ and probably never will, I can't see any thing in that trout that resembles any brownie, the I have ever caught, we can argue 'till the Cows come home, ( but only if you have cows?) I will now retreat into my narrow world of ignorance,what sort of trout farms are there in those canals ? easker1

Surely it matters not a jot that it is like no brown trout you have ever seen. How many New Zealand brown trout have you seen with your own eyes?

You still have not suggested any alternative, if it is not a brown trout. If it is not a brown trout, you need to offer a viable alternative. If you don't have a viable alternative you have to accept it is just a weird looking brown trout. That is what it clearly is.

Col
 

ohanzee

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Just saying, as a Brown trout , it resembles nothing like any of the Brown trout pics you have posted Col,even your Loch Corrib ferox is more of a brownie type than the 1st post, but then I've never fished in NZ and probably never will, I can't see any thing in that trout that resembles any brownie, the I have ever caught, we can argue 'till the Cows come home, ( but only if you have cows?) I will now retreat into my narrow world of ignorance,what sort of trout farms are there in those canals ? easker1

If you google image 'Dollaghan' you will see more of them, its a visually distinct strain in that part of Ireland, but for sure it looks more like a European lake trout compared to anything I catch.
 

Cap'n Fishy

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If you google image 'Dollaghan' you will see more of them, its a visually distinct strain in that part of Ireland.

Dollaghan might get called a 'strain', but they are not one in the scientific sense, let's be honest. They are just the brown trout that have evolved to live a 'lacustrine-adfluvial' potanadromous existence in the Lough Neagh system, as per the pale blue example below...



Just as when you take Loch Leven trout out of Loch Leven they instantly cease to be Loch Leven trout, as soon as you take dollaghan out of the Lough Neagh system, they cease to be dollaghan. There was a thread on here a while back where it was discussed how they attempted to stock other river systems with dollaghan, but they just disappeared. Aye, well, what you've done there is stock a river system with brown trout that were adjusted to the Lought Neagh system, and have asked them to readjust to the new system you have put them into. That's why they 'disappeared'.

... it looks more like a European lake trout compared to anything I catch.

If by "European lake trout", you mean brown trout that live in lakes - that's what I have trying to tell Derek. It's (visually at least) similar to the likes of the grown-on brown trout from Rutland Water, or a massive bloated Loch Leven fish. In other words, it's a brown trout, Salmo trutta. Jeezo, I've gone round more times than the Average White Band...

 
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ohanzee

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Dollaghan might get called a 'strain', but they are not one in the scientific sense, let's be honest. They are just the brown trout that have evolved to live a 'lacustrine-adfluvial' potanadromous existence in the Lough Neagh system, as per the pale blue example below...



Just as when you take Loch Leven trout out of Loch Leven they instantly cease to be Loch Leven trout, as soon as you take dollaghan out of the Lough Neagh system, they cease to be dollaghan. There was a thread on here a while back where it was discussed how they attempted to stock other river systems with dollaghan, but they just disappeared. Aye, well, what you've done there is stock a river system with brown trout that were adjusted to the Lought Neagh system, and have asked them to readjust to the new system you have put them into. That's why they 'disappeared'.



If by "European lake trout", you mean brown trout that live in lakes - that's what I have trying to tell Derek. It's (visually at least) similar to the likes of the grown-on brown trout from Rutland Water, or a massive bloated Loch Leven fish. In other words, it's a brown trout, Salmo trutta. Jeezo, I've gone round more times than the Average White Band...


If this is just about being right then I can put your mind at rest, as many have posted its a brown trout.

The more interesting thing is the 'strains' the fact that your map there shows different strains of brown trout is clouded by the 'they are all brown trout' thing, we know they are, there is no question, yet we have different versions that have evolved within that, that I find interesting.
 

Cap'n Fishy

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... as many have posted its a brown trout.

Derek doesn't think it is.

The more interesting thing is the 'strains' the fact that your map there shows different strains of brown trout is clouded by the 'they are all brown trout' thing, we know they are, there is no question, yet we have different versions that have evolved within that, that I find interesting.

The map does not show different strains. It shows a collective overview of the range of one species, Salmo trutta, with (potentially) different life-styles and different populations, depending on the specific environment being studied. In any one system, you might find only one of those examples. If you wanted to have more than one, co-existing, but identified separately, you would need to have them breed 'true to type'. There are known examples of that, such as with ferox, where the genetic marker causes a behaviour change, such that the fish delays sexual maturity until after it has switched to a diet of fish and grown to 3 or 4 lb in weight, and is then able to access higher spawning redds inaccessible to 'normal' trout. (So we are told.) There are no doubt other means of sympatric speciation at large with Salmo trutta.

If you want them to stay separate, you have to identify something that is stopping them from interbreeding. Bear in mind that trout and salmon interbreed to produce sterile 'mule' fish far more than we realise. So, what stops any brown trout (including seatrout, slob trout, river trout, lake trout, etc) from interbreeding with any others on the redds?

Potentially, you can have a system with examples of all those in the diagram, all interbreeding with each other on the redds. If they all interbreed, they are all one population. But, when you pick one from the upper streams and one from the lake and one from the lower rivers and one from the estuary and one from the sea, they will all look different from one another... because of the environment you have taken them from, not because of their genetic 'strain'.
 

LukeNZ

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I have not read all this thread so will have missed some points and this may have already been discussed.

The canal where it was caught contains trout farms and these big fish feed off the surplus pellets and waste from the farmed trout....I have watched them doing it.

Trout farms are prohibited in NZ under the Conservation act. It is illegal to buy or sell trout.

There are a few Salmon farms dotted around, but they are very few and that heavily regulated that you would wonder why anyone bothers. I think a Salmon farm can only exist in a closed waterway - but will check that.

NZ Green lipped mussels and Scallops, are the only open waterway farming I am aware of. You see a few of those around the Marlborough Sounds in some of the sheltered fiords. And Scallop seeding around Nelson’s bay areas.
 

easker1

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I did say it's not like any Brown trout I have ever seen , I can't offer an alternative as I have never been to New Zealand, but that's not what the discussion is about, I just don't see how you can offer all the pics you have of Brown trout and say it is the same, but hey, we all have our opinions,easker1
 

flathead

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Trout farms are prohibited in NZ under the Conservation act. It is illegal to buy or sell trout.

There are a few Salmon farms dotted around, but they are very few and that heavily regulated that you would wonder why anyone bothers. I think a Salmon farm can only exist in a closed waterway - but will check that.

NZ Green lipped mussels and Scallops, are the only open waterway farming I am aware of. You see a few of those around the Marlborough Sounds in some of the sheltered fiords. And Scallop seeding around Nelson’s bay areas.
Ok Salmon farms....but the principle is the same

 

LukeNZ

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Ok Salmon farms....but the principle is the same

First time I have read that pamphlet, but I can see now why there is not any fly fisher interest - seems like it is more in the bait fisherman’s realm, with Huhu grubs, worms etc.

Have eaten huhu grubs - like a very large maggot, found in rotting trees. They taste like peanut butter. Have also had whiskey huhu’s - where they are kept live in whiskey soaked newspaper. They eat the newspaper for a long time before the whiskey eventually kills them. Then you take the huhu grubs and chill them, and coat them in dark chocolate. Very nice indeed!!

https://teara.govt.nz/files/p-10076-pc.jpg


🙃
 

ohanzee

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First time I have read that pamphlet, but I can see now why there is not any fly fisher interest - seems like it is more in the bait fisherman’s realm, with Huhu grubs, worms etc.

Have eaten huhu grubs - like a very large maggot, found in rotting trees. They taste like peanut butter. Have also had whiskey huhu’s - where they are kept live in whiskey soaked newspaper. They eat the newspaper for a long time before the whiskey eventually kills them. Then you take the huhu grubs and chill them, and coat them in dark chocolate. Very nice indeed!!

https://teara.govt.nz/files/p-10076-pc.jpg


🙃

If you take the whiskey soaked newspaper and coat it in the chocolate, and just leave the maggot out you might be onto something that appeals to more than just New Zealanders.
 

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