New world record Brown ? 46.9lb

thetrouttickler

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Humans migrated by their own means, though. Grey squirrels did not get to Britain by their own means, and cane toads did not get to Australia by their own means. Humans transported them, with disastrous consequences for native wildlife. The brown trout has been transported to places it would not have reached naturally and is now a foreign introduction. It can expand its new ranges further by its wonderful ability to smolt and run to sea and use the sea to colonise new rivers... which it has done.

I'm not advocating eradicating it where it occurs outside its native range. Just saying we don't think of it as an invasive species - which it definitely is in some places - thanks to man. It's something to think about... :unsure:

The eradication debate is very topical in South Africa where trout have been present for 140 years. Some wish to eradicate them completely and some rivers have been poisoned with rotenone. There is a hiatus in these developments at present, I believe, whilst they consider the economic impact of trout tourism and associated employment, but the threat has not gone away.

My view is that after 140 years, any alleged damage has long been done, and they are now part of the furniture. They are contained by climate factors and there is no risk of them colonising where they haven't before (unless there are dramatic climactic shifts).

Some fish rely on other organisms like birds to distribute their eggs in different water courses. Many plants and other species do too. Who is to say humans aren't intended to serve a similar function in the ecosystem? Ok, it is a bit far-fetched, I know, because some of the results have been disastrous, but many species which we take for granted (including cows, horses, pigs, goats, sheep, dogs, cats) wouldn't exist if we didn't have an inherent instinct to mould the environment. Why is it deemed any more acceptable to introduce pets and other domestic animals, which can have detrimental effects (like farting bovines, or the spread of rabies), but not for sport?
 

Cap'n Fishy

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If you were to write to the nice Ms Ardern's government in New Zealand today and ask if it would be OK to bring a bunch of eggs from a non-native species, from Britain to New Zealand, and release them there, for the purpose of providing sport, what do you suppose your chances would be of getting a 'yes' answer?
 

thetrouttickler

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If you were to write to the nice Ms Ardern's government in New Zealand today and ask if it would be OK to bring a bunch of eggs from a non-native species, from Britain to New Zealand, and release them there, for the purpose of providing sport, what do you suppose your chances would be of getting a 'yes' answer?

As I said much earlier, in these enlightened times, it would be a big strop and a no-no, but I certainly don't stay up at night with stress thinking about what our industrious forebears did. I have spent lots of money, time and effort following in their footsteps!
 

Cap'n Fishy

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My view is that after 140 years, any alleged damage has long been done, and they are now part of the furniture.

A viable argument. It's a bit of a Strawman when arguing that they should never have been introduced, but viable, nonetheless. 😜

It's a kind of 'backwards but similar' argument to the one that says it is too late to reintroduce beavers to the British Isles, as they have been absent for several hundred years and everything else has adjusted itself to life without beavers in the years since their extinction. So every single species would be altered by their reintroduction. You can see both sides of the argument...

Col
 

Cap'n Fishy

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As I said much earlier, in these enlightened times, it would be a big strop and a no-no, but I certainly don't stay up at night with stress thinking about what our industrious forebears did. I have spent lots of money, time and effort following in their footsteps!

For sure - no point crying over spilt milk. Can't unmake an omelette, and all that... 😜
 

Cap'n Fishy

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One of the things that pissed me off with the late Bruce Sandison was his double standards with regard to brown and rainbow trout. He looked down his nose at rainbow trout, calling them foreign invaders with no place in our country (even though if you want rid of them you just stop stocking with them (Derbyshire Wye notwithstanding)).

But at the same time, he was a big supporter of how brown trout had been taken to various countries around the world where no trout were native and been introduced there and had thrived. No mention of any of the native species that had suffered as a result, Bruce... :whistle:
 

thetrouttickler

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There is no difference between rainbow and brown trout. Both are wonderful fish. Did Bruce do much catching of truly wild rainbow trout overseas? It's easy to see why someone in the UK may develop a blinkered view, but they are a fine species of fish.
 

Cap'n Fishy

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There is no difference between rainbow and brown trout. Both are wonderful fish. Did Bruce do much catching of truly wild rainbow trout overseas? It's easy to see why someone in the UK may develop a blinkered view, but they are a fine species of fish.

I wouldn't say there is no difference (not even in the same genus, for example) but I think I get where you are coming from. And I agree they are both wonderful fish. You will find members of this forum who look down their noses at rainbows in the same way Bruce did, though... 😗

Col
 

scobo

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Aye, WTF is all that about? We have that here as well, though on nothing like that scale. Up the road from me, there is a fence round an electricity cabinet, and it has a single padlock on it! It looks so lonely. What's it all about?

Col
Looks like some sort of symbol of a couples undying love for each other. :sick:
 

sean freeman

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Were it not for our victorian forebears we wouldn’t have the beautiful rainbows in the Derbyshire Wye and I’d have to travel to America or Canada to fish for brook trout. The brook trout of Scotland are of particular interest to fisheries scientists as they may be descendants of now extinct populations. One population in particular look like an Adirondacks heritage strain.

4BE4C61E-D4B4-474D-96C2-71A818BAFBF3.jpeg

I know they shouldn’t be here but I’m glad they are in the same way I’m glad that rainbows and browns are in NZ. A dream destination of mine that I know I’ll never get to is the Kerguelen islands where massive sea run browns have taken hold but some river systems were successfully planted with Brookies, rainbows and Arctic char! Possibly the most remote trout fishing in the world.

The lesser known islands of TDF with numerous species are of interest too, I need to work harder or win the lottery!
 

Cap'n Fishy

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Looks like some sort of symbol of a couples undying love for each other. :sick:

I was guessing it had to be something along those lines, Scott. An electricity cabinet fence in Bonnington must rank amongst the most unromantic places you could choose to put one! 🤪 But at the same time... only someone from around here would have the humour to do that, so I just about get it. ;)

Col

PS: I am so going to go and take a photo of it tomorrow... 😜
 

Gdog

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I'm not a fan of 'flees', to be honest.

Going off topic again, but....

Neither am I a fan of flees or flaes either. Where I grew up flaes was local slang for fleas e.g "you need to throw a skite of that powder on Chum, he has a dose of the flaes"
 

sean freeman

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That's an amazing-looking fish! So, that is a population that is self-sustaining, somewhere in Scotland is it?

Col
Yeah, there are a dozen plus populations! I know half of them but some have eluded me so far. You won’t find any online, I’m lucky to know a Scottish Brookie hunter well who has steered me in the right direction. Most of the information has come from victorian estate records. The one pictured is a descendant of a population that was planted 150 years ago. They exist amongst the most spectacular scenery in Scotland.
 

JayP

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Were it not for our victorian forebears we wouldn’t have the beautiful rainbows in the Derbyshire Wye and I’d have to travel to America or Canada to fish for brook trout. The brook trout of Scotland are of particular interest to fisheries scientists as they may be descendants of now extinct populations. One population in particular look like an Adirondacks heritage strain.

View attachment 32120

I know they shouldn’t be here but I’m glad they are in the same way I’m glad that rainbows and browns are in NZ. A dream destination of mine that I know I’ll never get to is the Kerguelen islands where massive sea run browns have taken hold but some river systems were successfully planted with Brookies, rainbows and Arctic char! Possibly the most remote trout fishing in the world.

The lesser known islands of TDF with numerous species are of interest too, I need to work harder or win the lottery!
Sean how did the trout get to the Kerguelen islands? Btw how did the auction go?
 

sean freeman

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Sean how did the trout get to the Kerguelen islands? Btw how did the auction go?
I’m sure it had something to do with French research, I know the only way to access the islands is for research with French approval! If I were a man of means I’d offer to fund their projects for a year in exchange for a month there! Here’s a little excerpt about the islands. A dream location for sure!

Since the early 1950s, several species of salmonids have been introduced more or less successfully in the Kerguelen Islands, a 7,215 km² archipelago located in the Southern Ocean (49°S, 70°E) and previously devoid of any freshwater fish. The aim of this work was to establish a documented chronicle of these events from available archives, to better understand the causes of the colonization failure or success for the different species. The history that emerged from the analysis of the archives appeared much more complex than previously published. Stocks of various origins were used, and numerous attempts were made at different sites involving variable numbers of fish released at different life stages. Between 1951 and 1991, 22 importation attempts took place, involving about 2 million individuals. Of the 8 species introduced (Salmo trutta, S. salar, Oncorhynchus mykiss, O. tshawytscha, O. kisutch, Salvelinus namaycush, S. fontinalis and S. alpinus), only 3 failed to establish local populations (O. mykiss, O. tshawytscha and S. namaycush). Overall, 23 watersheds were stocked. At present, 45 watersheds are colonized by one or several species. S. trutta, S. fontinalis, S. alpinus and O. kisutch were capable of migrating toward new habitats. The brown trout (S. trutta) was the only species to colonize a large number of watersheds (32 in about 10 generations). Its success can be explained by the diversity of origins, the number and importance of introduction and transfer attempts, the diversity of release sites and the peculiarities of its life cycle.

I’ll be honest I completely forgot! I’m currently saving for another fish graphic Abel so probably for the best!
 
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