Overhang, how much is too much?

[stevie d]

Just wondering if there is a set or optimal amount of line that should be used for this. There must be a point where too much overhang will cause problems with the cast collapsing so I was wonder g if there is an optimum beyond which point it is not worth going. Would this vary between casters of differing abilities or is there a point beyond which no one should venture.

 

[PaulD]

It's a combination of the 'action' of the rod, the profile of the line being used, the casting arc, stroke length and not least the caster's ability to generate and maintain line speed.

 

[george trebinski]

Trial and error. When your cast goes to pot pull back a metre and try again. Repeat 'till you get a good cast. If you want to you can then use a sharpie to mark your line.

 

[James9118]

Just wondering if there is a set or optimal amount of line that should be used for this. There must be a point where too much overhang will cause problems with the cast collapsing so I was wonder g if there is an optimum beyond which point it is not worth going. Would this vary between casters of differing abilities or is there a point beyond which no one should venture.

It's very much dependent on the line and the skill of the caster. A particular line feature that has a dramatic effect is the rear taper of the head (not an issue with a DT); short tapers that give a fairly abrupt transition between head and shooting line tend to be sensitive to the amount of overhang, whereas lines with long rear tapers are less so. Both designs will have an optimal amount for any given caster to get the best results.

A good training method is to make up a shooting head (i.e. the most abrupt transition) and see how much overhang you can cope with before things start going wrong. You can then assess different stroke lengths etc. to see if it makes a difference to you.

James

 

[BobP]

Basically you will soon know if you've got too much line in the air for your, or more likely, the rod's capabilities. The rod will just start to feel soggy in the hand during the cast and the line speed will drop as will the line in the air.

With weight forward lines the general idea is a metre into the running line. With DT lines you don't have that convenient transition between head and running line so you have to wait for that rubbery feeling that tells you you'd better stop now and start again.

I used to make up my own shooting heads many years ago. I'd buy DT mill ends, cut them in half and then cast with the half line not attached to any running line. Just a question of false cast until that soggy feeling started then pull the line back a couple of feet and cast again until it all felt comfortable. Then lay the rod down on the ground and cut the line a foot outside of the tip ring, attach the running line and give it a go. If it felt right then do the nail knot and go fishing. If not then fidget around until it did.

 

[James9118]

Basically you will soon know if you've got too much line in the air for your, or more likely, the rod's capabilities. The rod will just start to feel soggy in the hand during the cast and the line speed will drop as will the line in the air.

This is an area where many casters find it easy to blame their tackle rather than their own abilities. The rod has a small effect compared to the casters skill when it comes to aerialising lots of line. For example, most of the good casters I know can hold up 80 or 90ft of line irrespective of whether they're using a soft rod or a stiff one. But it does take a lot of skill.

James

 

[BobP]

This is an area where many casters find it easy to blame their tackle rather than their own abilities. The rod has a small effect compared to the casters skill when it comes to aerialising lots of line. For example, most of the good casters I know can hold up 80 or 90ft of line irrespective of whether they're using a soft rod or a stiff one. But it does take a lot of skill.

James

I would say that I am a better than average caster both for distance and accuracy. These days I rarely really push it to the limit because it is seldom necessary, but I know with any of the rods I own or use where that "soggy" feeling kicks in. I seldom get it because I know when to let it go.

Like a lot of anglers who say they can cast 40 yards, I've yet to see it, and I've yet to see someone hold 30 yards of line in the air and deliver a decent turnover and delivery. Casting competitions and fishing are two different things in the same way that clay pigeon shooting and driven game shooting are. Scoring 90/100 on clays rather rapidly drops to 1/4 or 1/5 on the real stuff.

 

[Paul_B]

Its common for those who paddle in the water and those who slap the water to want to cast a long way, most fishermen and ladies however don't frighten the fish away and catch quite close in

 

[James9118]

There's no such thing as a rod going 'soggy'. What actually happens is that the bend gets so large that the caster loses control of the tracking and blames the rod. If you have sufficient skill then this isn't an issue and you accept that in reality all rods get stiffer the more you bend them (simple physics tells you this, thus sogginess is a myth). I'm more than happy to demonstrate a 40yd cast for you, either with your gear or mine.

 

[squimp]

I’ve watched people like James , Tracey and Steve Parkes at BFCC events and Game Fairs.

they can control much more line in the air than I can. As James says it takes skill; more than I currently possess.

 

[karlsson]

There's no such thing as a rod going 'soggy'. What actually happens is that the bend gets so large that the caster loses control of the tracking and blames the rod. If you have sufficient skill then this isn't an issue and you accept that in reality all rods get stiffer the more you bend them (simple physics tells you this, thus sogginess is a myth). I'm more than happy to demonstrate a 40yd cast for you, either with your gear or mine.

Me too

A study in overhang:

Cheers
Lasse

 

[fishing hobo]

Me too

A study in overhang:

Cheers
Lasse

Lasse, it is kinda difficult to see but as you lengthen the overhang you are casting more 170/wider arc and longer haul. The speed of the rod doesn't seem to be much faster for the bigger arc?I guess it is also advantageous that you are very tall with longer arm span

 

[ed_t]

Me too

A study in overhang:

Cheers
Lasse

Was 57 seconds deliberate? looks like a drop in forward cast speed causing a collapsing cast with fly leg ripples that can't have come from the rod leg. I'd guess the fly leg started pushing towards the loop, like playing snooker with a rope.

 

[karlsson]

Lasse, it is kinda difficult to see but as you lengthen the overhang you are casting more 170/wider arc and longer haul. The speed of the rod doesn't seem to be much faster for the bigger arc?I guess it is also advantageous that you are very tall with longer arm span

Got short arms...

I start using a wider arc, because I need to pull the overhang out from the direction of the cast. Otherwise it causes slack that kills the cast.and O dont need to cast much faster, the line only gets a little bit longer. Its much more about trying to keep tension in the system. That shows clearly in the last part with pullback.

Cheers
Lasse

 

[karlsson]

Was 57 seconds deliberate? looks like a drop in forward cast speed causing a collapsing cast with fly leg ripples that can't have come from the rod leg. I'd guess the fly leg started pushing towards the loop, like playing snooker with a rope.

Other way around, cast collapses due to too much slack (overhang) and I cant save it, thats where I shift technique to the 170.
Loop is fed by the flyleg, always.

Cheers
Lasse

 

[ed_t]

Other way around, cast collapses due to too much slack (overhang) and I cant save it, thats where I shift technique to the 170.
Loop is fed by the flyleg, always.

Cheers
Lasse

The energy comes from the rod. The rod leg must be the source; the fly leg a follower.

 

[James9118]

The energy comes from the rod. The rod leg must be the source; the fly leg a follower.

When discussing fly casting the terms rod-leg and fly-leg are only typically used once they are distinct from one another i.e. once the loop is formed. So you are correct in saying the energy in the line comes from it being towed behind the rod, however once the rod is stopped and the fly line starts to overtake it, then the bulk of the line and thus the energy is, by definition, in the fly-leg.

 

[karlsson]

The energy comes from the rod. The rod leg must be the source; the fly leg a follower.

Energy comes from the caster, using the rod to drag the line, as James says, when there is two legs, the flyleg is the one with the energy, building the rodleg as it is pulled down into it.

Cheers
Lasse

 

[original cormorant]

Me too

A study in overhang:

Cheers
Lasse

56 metres is just showing off. (seatrout distance video)

 

[ohanzee]

Just wondering if there is a set or optimal amount of line that should be used for this. There must be a point where too much overhang will cause problems with the cast collapsing so I was wonder g if there is an optimum beyond which point it is not worth going. Would this vary between casters of differing abilities or is there a point beyond which no one should venture.

I'm thinking that might have gone all a bit technical very quickly, do you mean to pick up or to keep in the air?