Pacific Salmon in Scotlnd

aenoon

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Do Pink salmon cross breed with Atlantic Salmon, the only Atlantic salmon on the west coast are pen raised & sterile. So when they escape there is no mixed breeding issues
Was a different beast released by Russia.
Totally fertile, returning fish, wherever they returned, could breed.
They dont breed with Atlantics, mainly because of different breeding cycles.
However, over the decades they (the pacifics) have made inroads into the Atlantics habitat, thus the concern.
 

bobmiddlepoint

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Do Pink salmon cross breed with Atlantic Salmon, the only Atlantic salmon on the west coast are pen raised & sterile. So when they escape there is no mixed breeding issues

I doubt they could interbreed even if they did spawn at the same time.
However, as Bert says, they have very different spawning cycles. Pinks spawn July/August whereas Atlantics spawn November - February.

Andy
 

Paul_B

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I watched the BBC filming an article about them at Dryburgh Abbey stretch some years ago, a couple had been caught in the river and it was classed as a threat to our salmon.

I wondered what they were doing paddling in the water, then I saw the cameraman :rolleyes:
 

Tangled

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I thought the Kola fish were atlantics?
To be clear, there's loads of Atlantic Salmon in the Kola. But you get pinks too. They tend to be treated as vermin - you're supposed to kill them.

If you catch them fresh from the sea they're decent tasting and they're a welcome fish to save a blank. But it's not what you go to Russia for,

Occasionally you get hundreds of them in the same pool and it becomes like fish in a barrel stuff.
 

kreid

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Atlantic = Salmo
Pink = Onchorhyncus
Thus, no interbreeding possible (to make it short)

R
But are tiger trout etc not a crossbreed between trout and charr or brook trout, albeit man made? Wolves can breed with an alsation can they not? Like in the film Jurassic Park.....Nature will find a way ? If this my thoughts, nt based on anything scienntific....Feel free to correct me.
 

raphael

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@kreid: there are things possible and some not. You may wonder for sure, but some answer are well established.

There are sometimes strange things within the fish world and some interbreeding is possible in some cases, but in nature it is mostly in between very close species, usually leading to sterile individuals (alis and twaite shad, carp and crucian carp; nevertheless it looks Salmo trutta and salar can have fertile hybrids...). Each family and genus has its specificity. You may have some unexpected things occurring, like some crucian carps populations which are all females and spawn with breams in order to trigger the fertilization process of the ova, but once it is ongoing, the gene pool of the bream is rejected outside the egg and it is giving only crucians... Hence it is not hybridization.
Back to our topic:
Hybridization between salmo (i.e brown trout) and salvelinus (i.e brook trout) is possible under human control and that's leading to "tigers". Sometimes but very rarely occurs in nature; it is documented here in France, in a few Pyrenees streams; it is a problem as it is weakening the natural strain of brownies (there's been a thread about that on that forum).
Hybridization between salmo and onchorhyncus is naturally impossible: 2 pairs of chromosomes difference. Apart from the differences in life cycles that makes this not conceivable.

Regarding dog, it is another story: biologically any kind of dog is a wolf, just a domestic one (Canis lupus "familiaris").
You (**** Sapiens) can not interbreed with and ape (Pan Troglodytes), despite both are hominids (and despite it looks some people in my village might have success yet :ROFLMAO:).

In fact problem with pink in the Atlantic ocean is linked with habitat and food allowance, mainly for juveniles but there might be other unknown issues (e.g possible diseases spread, who knows?). Any introduction shall be regarded with high suspicion. Stats are showing that for 1000 introduced species, 10 tend to establish and one is leading to severe trouble,either plant or animal. Sometimes it takes long before something triggers a sudden surge within an introduced populationafter years of latence. E.g in river Loire, crappies where introduced in the late XIX century, and everybody forgot them... until 10 years ago we started to catch some, a few at beginning and in isolated areas, and now they tend to be common and expanding... What is next step?

R
 

kreid

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Merci pour ca! We have many alien species here in Scotland, mainly birds introduced for shooting, like pheasants and , dare I say irm French Partridge. Then we have invasive species of sawbill ducks intoduced by the victorians.....they are now hoovering up untold numbers of small grayling , trout and salmon. There were not there before aand they should not be there now. But also fish. Often fish that were native in England only are now up in the North of Scotland due in the main to human transportation.
 

bobmiddlepoint

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But are tiger trout etc not a crossbreed between trout and charr or brook trout, albeit man made? Wolves can breed with an alsation can they not? Like in the film Jurassic Park.....Nature will find a way ? If this my thoughts, nt based on anything scienntific....Feel free to correct me.

Well apart from the points made by Raphael even if they could cross breed (which they can't) there is still the issue of totally different spawning times. Pink eggs or milt are going to miss Atlantic eggs or milt by at least three months. But then I've already pointed that out, did you miss that or did you just assume I am a tw4t talking shite?

Andy
 

kreid

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Well on this thread, which had been informative and amicable thus far, you come across as an arrogant ***** who should not drink alcohol while or before posting. What you said at the start makes sense but my apologies for daring to question your scientific knowledge.
 

bennysbuddy

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Well on this thread, which had been informative and amicable thus far, you come across as an arrogant ***** who should not drink alcohol while or before posting. What you said at the start makes sense but my apologies for daring to question your scientific knowledge.
Drinking while posting never plays out well, I know this from personal experiences
 

aenoon

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Well on this thread, which had been informative and amicable thus far, you come across as an arrogant ***** who should not drink alcohol while or before posting. What you said at the start makes sense but my apologies for daring to question your scientific knowledge.
Actually, it was me that pointed out the breeding cycle differences in the first instance, Andy just highlighted my point.
Bert
 

Rhithrogena

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They dont breed with Atlantics, mainly because of different breeding cycles.
Never say never with fish, but there has been no natural hybridisation between the Salmo and Onchorynchus genera ever reported in the literature...
Workers have produced 'Brownbows' (Rainbow trout female x Brown trout male) in the lab, as well as other hybrids between the genera with mixed results and none have ever produced fertile offspring, yet...
With Atlantic Salmon runs in decline now is not the time to be allowing alien species into our rivers in any case.
 

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