Palomar knot strength vs Improved Clinch Knot for Kings

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Aug 24, 2020
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was rigging my gear up for salmon fishing and thought I’d try using a Palomar knot-As opposed to Using my normal improved clinch knot- to increase the strength of the tie to the barrel swivel; However , the opposite seemed to occur. When I applied pressure , I was able to break the Palomar Knot with my hands with some difficulty but not the improved clinch knot. I figured that the Palomar would be stronger due to its structure , more specifically , the fact that it is doubled when wrapped around the barrel swivel. This should increase strength by Differentiating the force onto 2 strands as opposed to just one I would think , right? But the clinch knot appeared superior : why??
 

Uncas

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You must have tighten the knot up wrong, The Palomar knot strength is 91% more if you glue it.
The imp- clinch is up to 86%.
The Palomar is the strongest knot for braid.
 
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Yes , I believe you’re right ; tied the knot up again and very strong on the barrel swivel. I think what was screwing me up was the passing the loop around the hook step that you see in diagrams online : you can’t do that with the barrel swivel cuz it has an eye , not an open ended hook!! Anyway, so what I did was , I made 2 passes through the loop and cinched it up and seems Like it’s integrity and strength is intact
 

Rhithrogena

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You tie a Palomar onto a hook and a swivel in EXACTLY the same way. Check you have tied it correctly........
 
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According to the simulation I googled for Palomar knots , you tie an overhand knot with the doubled line around the eye , then pass the doubled loop through and around the base of the hook; how would you do that with a barrel swivel? Additionally , I kind of like the added second pass Through the overhand knot, seemed to increase the strength but At this point I’m guessing , of course
 

Rhithrogena

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You double the line; pass the doubled part through the eye of the hook or swivel. Tie an overhand knot so the eye is retained inside the bight of the knot. Pass the swivel/ hook through the loop at the end of the doubled section of line. Tighten by pulling on the two pieces of line that protrude on the rod side of the knot, making sure the loop doesn't tighten around the metal, but above the knot itself, around the two pieces you are pulling on. Exactly the same for both.
 
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Awesome post , this is just what I needed !! Gonna try it this week when I go upstate for Kings , thank you Sir 😊
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Ok so I tied the Palomar According to The vid and it does seem very strong and secure but I ran into one issue in terms of a logistical constraint application I wanted to share : in order to make the loop go around the swivel the swivel MUST be free and not currently be tied to any other line ; otherwise , you cannot do it ! Usually , when I’m on the water fishing for Kings , I’m standing in knee to waist high water with guys standing all around me casting in a high- pressure situation. So , when I have a break- off, I need to tie on a new barrel swivel / tippet line and then fly as quickly as possible to get back to fishing . The only way to use the Palomar properly in my rig up woulbe to tie on the tippet line first and secure loop around the swivel , THEN attach the swivel to the leader line which is attached to the flyline . Then, I could simply pass the tippet line -approx 18 in length- through the loop created from tying the Palomar and securing the top end of the swivel attaching it to the leader line . I usually rig the swivel in reverse order but this sequence is doable and could work. Question is: would it reduce my # of break offs? Typically , I would estimate that my break off % is around 80% (ie 8 out of 10 Kings hooked break off) , would Using the Palomar knot this reduce it I wonder ?
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Rhithrogena

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Yes - carry some spare tippet sections with swivels already attached. Knot these to the leader when needed.
If 80% of fish are breaking your leader, you need a stronger leader AND a stronger knot!!
Just sayin.....
 
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Well, In all candor , the high break off % has as much to do with the fact that It’s combat style fishing (Because there’s tons of guys around you who are also fishing ) , which causes ALOT of break-offs due to tangling , as it does knot/ leader failure . Without including break offs due to What I’ll refer to as fisherman Interference , it’s probably more like 40% , still high , but not nearly so. Fact is , Kings are just so damn strong, I see them breaking off spin fisherman Just as much and as often . I’ve even seen rods break from the strain, had one do so myself last year! So , bottom line is , break offs are gonna happen no matter what you do when fishing for Kings , I just want to lower the % and minimize as much as is humanly possible 😊
 

3lbgrayling

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If your going to put yourself in this situation.you just have to accept the lossed.there is no knot that will help you.Sorry.

Jim
 
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Unfortunately, Crowds are Part of the inevitable when fishing the Salmon run , at least over here. Yes, there are things you can do to avoid the worst of the crowding - hiking deep into the woods To get a stretch all to yourself being one example-but It’s not as convenient either and if time is limiting , you have to accept the situation and make do as best as possible . That being said , I do still feel I can increase my landing % by buffing you certain aspects of my tackle , knots being one of the potential weak links . I think using a Much stronger knot such as the Palomar May be just the ticket , but, of course , that remains To be seen . Like I said , just looking to lower the % 😉
 

squimp

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Anybody who goes fishing for kings without testing their knots etc BEFORE they get to the river needs their head examined.

I fished for them last Summer (Alaska) and didn’t lose a single one through my tackle failure. That was fly fishing with 20lb maxima leader. flies were attached with the non-slip mono loop knot.

Plenty Fell off and one straightened a hook (provided by the guide). My fishing partner was broken by one fish after a 150 Yard run.

we landed plenty of fish to 35lb. Most were 18-25lb.

I guess it is a bit like saltwater fly fishing where you find out pretty fast if your tackle isn’t properly sorted.
 
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