Perfection knot loop strength

nwade77

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Just done a strength test on my pike fly leaders and I’m really concerned about the strength of the fluorocarbon.
I’m basically using 30lb seagar hard fluro and 30 lb afw 49strand titanium so in all I’ve made four perfection loops and joined it all up. The titanium is great but the fluorocarbon snapped at 15lb then I tied a double overhand loop and it broke at 10lb. Am I right to be concerned or does it act differently under water or is there a better knot to use. I’m really shocked as I thought seagar was one of the better brands I am tying the the loops correctly.
 
D

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Just done a strength test on my pike fly leaders and I’m really concerned about the strength of the fluorocarbon.
I’m basically using 30lb seagar hard fluro and 30 lb afw 49strand titanium so in all I’ve made four perfection loops and joined it all up. The titanium is great but the fluorocarbon snapped at 15lb then I tied a double overhand loop and it broke at 10lb. Am I right to be concerned or does it act differently under water or is there a better knot to use. I’m really shocked as I thought seagar was one of the better brands I am tying the the loops correctly.
The experts will help with this I'm sure.. How old is the fluro. Did you use saliva when tightening knot.
Basics but make a difference.
G
 
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I don’t use anything that strong but in thinner materials, the figure of eight knot is definitely stronger than perfection loops.
Please don't think I'm being an a55 can that be used for loop to loop connection.. Thank you.. G
 
D

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Certainly, yes.
I have swapped from perfection loops to FoE because of the strength. Easy to tie as well.
Plenty of instructions/videos on YouTube etc..
Thanks fella sorry to side step thread...
G
 

Jason 70

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Just done a strength test on my pike fly leaders and I’m really concerned about the strength of the fluorocarbon.
I’m basically using 30lb seagar hard fluro and 30 lb afw 49strand titanium so in all I’ve made four perfection loops and joined it all up. The titanium is great but the fluorocarbon snapped at 15lb then I tied a double overhand loop and it broke at 10lb. Am I right to be concerned or does it act differently under water or is there a better knot to use. I’m really shocked as I thought seagar was one of the better brands I am tying the the loops correctly.
I'm not sure how well this will come out with my phone? I use around 5ft of Rio Saltwater in 30lb test a triple surgeons loop. At the other end a swivel tied on with a Palamor knot then a split ring to make it easy swapping a trace if need be.
PXL_20210307_201725759_copy_2268x3024.jpg

The surgeons loop attached to the fly line is pretty much bomb proof. I hope this helps?
 

Tangled

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When you say 'snapped', did it snap exactly at the knot? The knot didn't fail? No curly tail?
 

bonefishblues

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Kreh Loops for me, always - and for everything. Excellent knot when tied properly.

See here:


Note that I wouldn't have fished with the example knot as it didn't seat properly. The turns should be snug together.
 

nwade77

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When you say 'snapped', did it snap exactly at the knot? The knot didn't fail? No curly tail?
Right at the knot yes there wasn’t a curly tail but maybe it’s less likely for that to happen with thicker fluorocarbon? I will definitely change knots now. Thanks for everyone’s replies.
 

shpeil

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I only use perfection loops in the thick end of a tapered leader. I've tried them on thinner stuff and found they broke rather easily. (This is for trout, mind, where you could half the BS of the thick end of the tapered leader and still come nowhere close to the BS of the tippet.)

For loops in the tippet, I use the figure of eight and have not had any problems with any materials.
 

Tangled

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But we're not talking about knots failing, as in giving way, the line snapped. And the line snapped with a different knot at a lower stress.

Something isn't quite right here. Pretty much all the knots we use are good and mostly equivalent, swapping one for another probably isn't the answer here. Don't know what it is mind, fluoro doesn't 'go off'.
 

squimp

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The perfection loop is about the most inefficient loop knot out there.

I only use it for lines of more than 50lb breaking strain. That way if it ‘breaks’ at 50percent if the line strength it doesn’t matter as I can’t pull that hard with a fly rod.

For lighter lines I use a Kreh loop or a figure of eight.
 
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The perfection loop is about the most inefficient loop knot out there.

I only use it for lines of more than 50lb breaking strain. That way if it ‘breaks’ at 50percent if the line strength it doesn’t matter as I can’t pull that hard with a fly rod.

For lighter lines I use a Kreh loop or a figure of eight.
Does the size of the loop that you have tied matter.? From looking tapered knotless leaders generally have the same loop size.. Is there a reason.. Thanks for any help..
 

squimp

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The size of the loop won’t affect the integrity of the knot. Big loops tend to get in the way and promote tangles - so I tend to tie mine fairly small (1-2 cm long).

Coarse anglers use ‘loop tiers’ to ensure all their loops are identical, I guess commercial leader manufacturers do something similar.

There are specialist applications for bigger loops eg bimini twists and using loops to create booms.
 
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The size of the loop won’t affect the integrity of the knot. Big loops tend to get in the way and promote tangles - so I tend to tie mine fairly small (1-2 cm long).

Coarse anglers use ‘loop tiers’ to ensure all their loops are identical, I guess commercial leader manufacturers do something similar.

There are specialist applications for bigger loops eg bimini twists and using loops to create booms.
Many thanks.
 

running bear

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Just done a strength test on my pike fly leaders and I’m really concerned about the strength of the fluorocarbon.
I’m basically using 30lb seagar hard fluro and 30 lb afw 49strand titanium so in all I’ve made four perfection loops and joined it all up. The titanium is great but the fluorocarbon snapped at 15lb then I tied a double overhand loop and it broke at 10lb. Am I right to be concerned or does it act differently under water or is there a better knot to use. I’m really shocked as I thought seagar was one of the better brands I am tying the the loops correctly.
I make my pike leaders with 20 and 30lb Berkley big game flouro, perfection looped. Never had one fail and if I ever need to pull for a break it's around a stick and walking backwards.
Definitely not breaking at 10lb. Takes more pulling on the 20lb Berkeley than 20lb maxima, which is saying something.

As many suggest, try other loops and if still a problem sounds like you've got a flouro problem.
 

rabmax

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I stopped using tippet rings on the end of my sighter.Even the so-called good brand tippet rings have many with sharp edges.I put a fo8 knot on the end of my sighter.Them tie a small fo8 loop on my tippet.I loop my tippet onto my sighter.Pull down until it snuggles up to my fo8 stop knot.It's been strong & reliable for nymphing leaders.Love using fo8 knots very strong.
 

morayfisher

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I stopped using tippet rings on the end of my sighter.Even the so-called good brand tippet rings have many with sharp edges.I put a fo8 knot on the end of my sighter.Them tie a small fo8 loop on my tippet.I loop my tippet onto my sighter.Pull down until it snuggles up to my fo8 stop knot.It's been strong & reliable for nymphing leaders.Love using fo8 knots very strong.
That is exactly the technique shown to me by John Pearson of Fishing Discoveries although he makes the loop in the tippet several inches long (for extra shock absorption).
As he says, it seems a bit counter intuitive but is just about bomb proof.
 

rabmax

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That is exactly the technique shown to me by John Pearson of Fishing Discoveries although he makes the loop in the tippet several inches long (for extra shock absorption).
As he says, it seems a bit counter intuitive but is just about bomb proof.
Have you tried the ladder leader they promote. I use it quite a bit.Fishing Discoveries are fans of the fo8 knot.Cheers
 
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