Cap'n Fishy
Well-known member
Apologies - I didn't know these points had been mentioned elsewhere.
No worries. There is a longer more detailed thread on the subject if you do a search for it.
Col
Apologies - I didn't know these points had been mentioned elsewhere.
Yes I am in favour of not polluting rivers. As I said on the previous page I just don't believe that dog flea treatment is damaging Rivers in such proportion compared to everything else that finds it's way in to those rivers.This is not an 'anti dog' thread, just as a desire to replace petrol and diesel cars with electric is not anti-car. In the first case it is to help to stop the use agents that destroy the insect population in the rivers, surely as a fly fisher you would be in favour of that? The second is to reduce carbon emissions and to prevent respiratory disease caused by pollution.
I remember seeing your dog person test on another occasion you'd mentioned about not liking dogs and 'dog people'. What is it about 'dog people' that is a Pita?I think the tablets might get excreted as even more toxic metabolites, and pissed against lampposts and then washed by rain into the storm drains and on into rivers? Not sure. Read the published papers on the subject and that other thread I already mentioned.
I have absolutely nothing against dogs. I like dogs. It's 'Dog People' that are an utter PITA. If you don't know whether you are a 'Dog Person', I can send you the test. It's a 3 MB PDF. I can email it. PM me if interested.
Col
Yes I am in favour of not polluting rivers. As I said on the previous page I just don't believe that dog flea treatment is damaging Rivers in such proportion compared to everything else that finds it's way in to those rivers.
Raw sewage being pumped in rivers and dogs pissing against lamppost's is the best we can do? Come on.
If you've a problem with pesticides why don't you just campaign against them in general, neonicitinoids in pet flea treatment is just a tiny corner of the tip of the iceberg.Some Sunday reading...
Neonicitinoid Insecticides in British Freshwaters
If you want to cut to the chase, the conclusions and recommendations are from p 33. Take from it what you will.
Look back to my earlier comment. Pyrethrins and pyrethroids are highly toxic to insects, and some to fish, but unlike neonics, they are very pidly broken down and inactivated in the environment. So they don't cause long term ecological damage.How many people spray permethrin all over their clothes near rivers when walking? Salmon fishermen and such? There aren't many things as effective as permethrin for ticks though, right?
So what short term damage do they do?Look back to my earlier comment. Pyrethrins and pyrethroids are highly toxic to insects, and some to fish, but unlike neonics, they are very pidly broken down and inactivated in the environment. So they don't cause long term ecological damage.
... neonicitinoids in pet flea treatment is just a tiny corner of the tip of the iceberg.
... why are they being singled out?
There are all kinds of pesticides which don't discriminate (and have the same things in them) raw sewage, car shampoo and a thousand other things washed directly in to rivers. I can't see how dogs pissing on lampposts can be hurting rivers as much as your papers say.That's not what these papers are saying.
There are all kinds of pesticides which don't discriminate (and have the same things in them) raw sewage, car shampoo and a thousand other things washed directly in to rivers. I can't see how dogs pissing on lampposts can be hurting rivers as much as your papers say.
Of course whatever we can do to make rivers cleaner, I'm all for.
There are already different methods of treating pet fleas, so, is there one which is significantly better than others which we should be favouring? Is your lamppost theory correct?
OK, what I get from it is that garden centres and plants are the major source of neonicotinoids in the environment, where their use has decreased as a commercial crop insecticide, and that this has already been shown to be the case in Canada.Read the papers.
Using a pyrethrin such as in Frontline spot on: the pyrethrin decays in sunlight within a day or 2 and is degraded by micro organisms.So what short term damage do they do?
What's your answer for an alternative to flea treatments for pets and why are they being singled out?
Frontline isn't as effective as it used to be, which is why we use bravecto.Using a pyrethrin such as in Frontline spot on: the pyrethrin decays in sunlight within a day or 2 and is degraded by micro organisms.
OK, what I get from it is that garden centres and plants are the major source of neonicotinoids in the environment, where their use has decreased as a commercial crop insecticide, and that this has already been shown to be the case in Canada.
It mentions external use of pet parasite treatment 'usually a poured on solution', which is not really accurate.
I can't get much information about how much of a factor pet flea treatments containing neonicotinoids are, because the paper states twice in the bit I've read, that there is no data.
Bravecto (fluralaner) is neither a pyrethroid nor a neonic. It is mainly excreted in the faeces so if you are a good dog owner and bag up the faeces, there should be little or no environmental impact. Problems would only arise if it had widespread use in agriculture.Frontline isn't as effective as it used to be, which is why we use bravecto.
There is a warning on Brave to saying do not allow it to enter water coursesFrontline isn't as effective as it used to be, which is why we use bravecto.
Bravecto (fluralaner) is neither a pyrethroid nor a neonic. It is mainly excreted in the faeces so if you are a good dog owner and bag up the faeces, there should be little or no environmental impact.
I thought it was, and that it was way more toxic than imidacloprid to insects? And also that bravecto treatment lingers in the bloodstream.Bravecto (fluralaner) is neither a pyrethroid nor a neonic. It is mainly excreted in the faeces so if you are a good dog owner and bag up the faeces, there should be little or no environmental impact. Problems would only arise if it had widespread use in agriculture.
..... It doesn't, unless you go and throw a load of it in to a river or lake.There is a warning on Brave to saying do not allow it to enter water courses