Poaching fines

ejw

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Some years ago in Wales, my wife and I were trialling a walk for a school party with our Gordon Setter (dog), when a farmer stormed over and threatened to shoot the dog ! It was on a lead and we were on a public footpath ? He objected to people on his land and all dogs attacked sheep !
I offered to send the dog amongst his sheep and if he attacked his sheep I would shoot him ! He did not believe me, but let me try. I sent the dog into the middle of the flock and sat him down, then moved the sheep past the dog. Called him back through the sheep and sat him next to the farmer ! He was impressed, I used to shoot with the dog 2 or 3 times a week ! He was that impressed that he offered to show the school party round his farm when they came. We parted as friends !!!
 

matt808

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Some years ago in Wales, my wife and I were trialling a walk for a school party with our Gordon Setter (dog), when a farmer stormed over and threatened to shoot the dog ! It was on a lead and we were on a public footpath ? He objected to people on his land and all dogs attacked sheep !
I offered to send the dog amongst his sheep and if he attacked his sheep I would shoot him ! He did not believe me, but let me try. I sent the dog into the middle of the flock and sat him down, then moved the sheep past the dog. Called him back through the sheep and sat him next to the farmer ! He was impressed, I used to shoot with the dog 2 or 3 times a week ! He was that impressed that he offered to show the school party round his farm when they came. We parted as friends !!!
He wouldn't be my friend after threatening to sboot my dog. Particularly if they were on a lead.
 

catzrob

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The Ramblers seem to be doing a cracking job of registering RoWs. I was worried that a lot of footpaths would go the way of commons, but they reckon they've mapped 100% of the UK's paths! https://dontloseyourway.ramblers.org.uk/

I've signed up for updates and will do anything I reasonably can to protect RoWs. I share the feelings of others on here about landowners who try to limit the use of or extinguish those rights - they are stealing rights from the people of the UK.

On poaching, I don't think we need better laws just better enforcement. Fishing where others have fishing rights is theft - there should be prosecutions and the value of the fish and dishing should be better recognized by the police. Its thousands of pounds being stolen. Might be worth bringing private prosecutions.

And kayakers - oooomph. Such nonsense that they can kayak wherever they want. Would love to see that properly enforced. I've been a kayaker myself but you have to respect the rules!
 

matt808

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Before we moved to the village we lived in now, the next village down the road, on the swale, you could walk for miles along the river along public footpaths.
Some time before we moved here, some new people took over the farm, locked all the gates so you can only walk on two fields, and put up 'permissive footpath only' signs everywhere.
Not sure how they've been allowed to do it, as far as I understand it has always been a public footpath and is marked as such on the OS map i have.
 

catzrob

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Before we moved to the village we lived in now, the next village down the road, on the swale, you could walk for miles along the river along public footpaths.
Some time before we moved here, some new people took over the farm, locked all the gates so you can only walk on two fields, and put up 'permissive footpath only' signs everywhere.
Not sure how they've been allowed to do it, as far as I understand it has always been a public footpath and is marked as such on the OS map i have.
If you report it to the Ramblers, they will take action. People often try to practically extinguish rights of way in this manner and it's illegal. Apart from the loss of unregistered RoWs in 2026 under the new law non-use doesn't seem to extinguish rights of way - I can't find any specific info on public rights of way but private RoWs are extinguished even by loooong terms of non use (100+ years).

I'll report the case to the Ramblers myself if you share the details.
 

matt808

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If you report it to the Ramblers, they will take action. People often try to practically extinguish rights of way in this manner and it's illegal. Apart from the loss of unregistered RoWs in 2026 under the new law non-use doesn't seem to extinguish rights of way - I can't find any specific info on public rights of way but private RoWs are extinguished even by loooong terms of non use (100+ years).

I'll report the case to the Ramblers myself if you share the details.
I believe there was a petition by people in the village but I don't know how far they got.
Apparently the most recent maps don't have it marked as a right of way, but older ones like mine do.
The issue i guess is when and if it ceased to officially be a public right of way?
 

catzrob

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I believe there was a petition by people in the village but I don't know how far they got.
Apparently the most recent maps don't have it marked as a right of way, but older ones like mine do.
The issue i guess is when and if it ceased to officially be a public right of way?
If it was being used until they blocked it, it definitely still exists. Non-use pursuant to illegal blocking will never extinguish it. If there was a petition, sounds like they might have just taken the wrong route.
 

Jeltz

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The Ramblers seem to be doing a cracking job of registering RoWs. I was worried that a lot of footpaths would go the way of commons, but they reckon they've mapped 100% of the UK's paths! https://dontloseyourway.ramblers.org.uk/
Well they haven't mapped the Thames path which has been under attack for years by developers building on it, an office block was built in London, the only way to use the Thames path now is to walk through the foyer past security, who will try to stop you. Then we have residents along the banks of the Thames putting up gates and private property signs to deter people from using a public right of way.
 

BobP

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There are all sorts of reasons people don't like other people on their land.
In general though they just resent people being there.
A guy who owns a house over the road has a field which i walk our dogs across occasionally. A public footpath goes across the middle of it. No livestock when i go on it, if there are I don't bother.
The other day he came out and asked me to put them on a lead, and that he didn't like people on there , because it encourages other people to go on it, that he'd tried to amend the footpath so that it ran parallel to the hedge rather than across the field, etc, etc.
None of which is up to him at all.
People like that have no right to come out of their house and try to tell walkers what to do.
Most of them clearly are well off, so if they have a problem with people walking on their land, maybe they should move somewhere where people aren't legally entitled to do so.
No, you have no right to walk all over his field. Stick to the footpath.If he wants to apply to the council to change the route of the footpath, so what? You'll get a longer walk.
 

matt808

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No, you have no right to walk all over his field. Stick to the footpath.If he wants to apply to the council to change the route of the footpath, so what? You'll get a longer walk.
I walked across the field, along the footpath, which goes through the middle of it.
The ramblers, he said, objected to him changing the route, good on them.
If you live in a big house with a load of land and a few people decide to exercise their legal right to walk on a small piece of it, so what?
 

BobP

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I walked across the field, along the footpath, which goes through the middle of it.
The ramblers, he said, objected to him changing the route, good on them.
If you live in a big house with a load of land and a few people decide to exercise their legal right to walk on a small piece of it, so what?
Fine, but he has a legal right to apply to divert the footpath if it, for example creates a nuisance eg ramblers chucking their rubbish over the hedge into his garden, which they do, or in these days allows people too good a look at the property who then come back to burgle the place. Both of which go on and if I were in that position I would have the biggest, baddest bull in creation on permanent duty in my field and when he went off on his holidays to serve a few cows I'd have a real badass ram in there. No arguing with those b*ggers!
 

catzrob

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If you try to block a footpath with an aggressive bull you’ll have issues.

Thames path is an issue but a different issue. It’s not a single public footpath. The access issue, and even the creation of the path on private land, mostly arises from dirty tricks by developers - promise public access (often on a limited or permissive basis) but then make it difficult or unattractive to actually use. Still outrageous and I’d love to see the ramblers take action on it but not the same as public rights of way. There is an interesting article on it here.
 

Jeltz

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High Wycombe, Buckinghamshire.
If you try to block a footpath with an aggressive bull you’ll have issues.

Thames path is an issue but a different issue. It’s not a single public footpath. The access issue, and even the creation of the path on private land, mostly arises from dirty tricks by developers - promise public access (often on a limited or permissive basis) but then make it difficult or unattractive to actually use. Still outrageous and I’d love to see the ramblers take action on it but not the same as public rights of way. There is an interesting article on it here.
I have had the odd run in with people like those in that article, jokers putting up private signs on a public right of way, then telling me I can't fish there. I take no notice of them and carry on fishing, then they get even more animated when they see I have no intention of moving. :D
 

matt808

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Fine, but he has a legal right to apply to divert the footpath if it, for example creates a nuisance eg ramblers chucking their rubbish over the hedge into his garden, which they do, or in these days allows people too good a look at the property who then come back to burgle the place. Both of which go on and if I were in that position I would have the biggest, baddest bull in creation on permanent duty in my field and when he went off on his holidays to serve a few cows I'd have a real badass ram in there. No arguing with those b*ggers!
Nobody chucks anything in to his garden, hardly anyone walks on it at all.
Attitudes like yours are the problem.
Put a bull in the field, or take down all the waymarker signs, walkers end up having to go off the path, and then the landowner blames them for not sticking to it.
 

BobP

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Nobody chucks anything in to his garden, hardly anyone walks on it at all.
Attitudes like yours are the problem.
Put a bull in the field, or take down all the waymarker signs, walkers end up having to go off the path, and then the landowner blames them for not sticking to it.
Walk on any rural footpath and you will find rubbish left behind by those using it. Doesn't get there on its own. Don't know about you, but I've yet to see sandwich packs, crisp packets and drinks bottles flying through the air unaided. That stuff gets dumped by walkers who can't be ar$ed to take it home with them. So, don't tell me that no-one chucks anything over the hedge because I don't believe it.
 

matt808

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Walk on any rural footpath and you will find rubbish left behind by those using it. Doesn't get there on its own. Don't know about you, but I've yet to see sandwich packs, crisp packets and drinks bottles flying through the air unaided. That stuff gets dumped by walkers who can't be ar$ed to take it home with them. So, don't tell me that no-one chucks anything over the hedge because I don't believe it.
I'd be extremely surprised if anyone has ever chucked anything over this particular hedge Bob.
Obviously litter can be a problem for anyone, especially in honeypot tourists towns and the areas around them.
I'm not arguing that litter is not a thing or that no one has ever had anything chucked ober their hedge, bordering on a footpath or not...but rubbish isn't a particular problem on the majority of footpaths, landlowners just resent people being there.
Happily, there's only so much they can do about it, at the moment.
 

catzrob

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My experience is that people mostly just drop litter. Can't be arsed to chuck it over a hedge any more than to take it home. It's still a blight but it's not a legally (or in my opinion morally) valid reason to close a footpath.

I would LOVE to see fines for litterers, ways of tagging durable litter like bottles to individuals, rules requiring much more packaging to be either biodegradable or reusable (with deposits), and levies on companies that profit from litter to fund cleanup. I'm sure there's a way to analyses which companies' packaging comprise what % of litter and to assign a live proportionally.
 

catzrob

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@catzrob Macdonalds springs to mind right away, anywhere there's a macd you see disgarded drinks cups, burger wrappers etc etc for miles around them

Al
Completely agree. See it everywhere. They're disproportionately benefitting from the production of litter so why not make them pay for some litterpickers.

At least their gear is biodegradable though. Crisps and soft drink manufacturers are worse in some ways (though less visible).
 
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