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Poaching fines

4K views 47 replies 18 participants last post by  matt808 
#1 ·
I was speaking to the Wherwell, Test, river keeper yesterday and he says the Wessex chalkstreams are being hammered by poaching 'travellers'. From Whitchurch on the top of the Test down to Romsey. Four travellers turned up at Wherwell Lakes, parked their 15K car and wandered up the river spinning the trout out with not a care in the world. Took the police three hours to turn up. For travellers there is the opportunity to pay a 'community fine?' Basically see how much they have on them and fine them that, in this case £100. So an afternoon on a lovely Test beat for £25 each. This is not going to end well. More important things going on right now I know but I feel sorry for the keepers who are under serious pressure.

Reg Wyatt
 
#41 ·
This is part of the problem, the EA/NRW can only act against illegal fishing and with rod and line that effectively stops with the possession of an appropriate rod licence, the more savvy poachers have caught on to this and invest in one. Only the police can deal with fishing without permission under the Theft Act, this does not need the possession of poached fish, fishing without paying is still theft.
 
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#3 ·
The fine needs to represent the loss !!! Unfortunately with "other" issues it is easier to issue on the spot fines. It would be better to take these individuals to court and imposed a "better" deterrent i.e. a loss effective fine and the confiscation of all equipment including the vehicle(s) used. That just might be a deterrent !!
 
#4 ·
Lets face it, we are a lawless country, people do what ever thay like with little or no repacusions, you just need to look at the news to see that, or read any local newpaper, you reap what you sow, and right now our country is reaping what it has sown for the last few years.
People will come back and say it's only a small minority, well let me tell you something, 10 million is a small minority in this country, thats a whole heap of trouble.
Also if you were a copper in this country with all the c**p that s going on at the moment (i'm not just talking about cv19) and somebody rings about a few gypo's taking a few fish what do you think there thoughts are, first of all it's a piddly offence in the grand scheme of things, secondly they are gonna get a load of c**p when they get there, and thirdly if they go to court at a lot of expence f**k all is gonna happen to them.
I'm not trying to undermine the seroiusnes of the offences, it's just the way this country is now.
 
#6 ·
Not poaching, but many years ago when I was fishing the test at Timsbury, two youths parked their car on the bridge, got their canoe out and started to canoe up and down the stretch we were fishing creating havoc for us. We remonstrated with them (think this was about '89 and back then it was about £90 each, a lot in those days) The abuse we got back was unbelievable, no mobile phones in those days either. Eventually they left, fishing was spoilt for a few hours.
 
#7 ·
Hello Reg. Has been going on for as long as I can remember which now a long time.Confront them and all they want to do is take their shirt off and have fight. Once upon a time I was more than happy to oblige but too many years on me now.Still winds me up the way they virtually get away with it and always have done.They will intimidate keepers and their families with threats.Granted not all the same for sure but there are some low lifes out there.A whole new generation of them.Stealing working dogs is another of their hobbies.Lots of stories Reg but not enough time or space here...
 
#10 ·
Yes JCP there seems to be some younger keepers at the moment and fighting does seem to be happening more often with very little support from an understaffed and over worked police force. Only two full time EA guys as well so I really fear for the keepers and their families. Test Valley seems awash with these darn travellers at the moment and as Black and Silver said, it's a lawless country. Hare coursing has been very bad and and stolen working dogs every day and non stop trout poaching. The keepers pray for rain not just to top up rivers but rather to keep the pikeys away.
Always enough time for your stories JCP!

Reg Wyatt
 
#8 ·
The level these so called "fines" are set at, would even cover the cost of petrol, let alone time for doing the admin. They are no threat whatsoever to these people (?) who pay them out of their back pockets. The threat (?) of vehicle confiscation might just mean another car gets "aquired" often to order, via a text.
 
#11 ·
Police don't want to know with gypsies, it's just easier for them to ignore them.
At work about 2 weeks ago one came in and threatened the girl who was working with a bottle when she told him he needed to pay for the stuff he'd nicked the day before (on cctv).
Police have done nowt, they know where he lives and who he is. They let them get away with everything because they don't want the backlash.
There is one really nice bloke, who works, who lives on the same site, the rest of them just drink and steal and claim benefits.
 
#13 ·
The only problem with that is, what happens if you stray off a footpath accidentally when walking? I can see landowners going power crazy.
A lot of landowners round here at least, hate people walking on their land and are always trying to find a way to stop people using public footpaths.
It's getting easier to find somewhere to walk in cities now that in the countryside.
 
#14 ·
I would dispute that, the reason land owners do not like walkers/hikers is the rubbish they leave in their way down the path.Then they leave gates open allowing live stock to roam. If people were sensible there would be no problem. On open access land the mountain rescue for Scafell collect bags full of litter after a warm weekend all thrown away by walkers and hikers
 
#15 ·
Went for a "local" walk this week, used to be a footpath when I was a lad, linking a canal to a river ? Farmer has locked a gate, removed footpath signs and is using the area as storage and dump. Doesn't take a lot to loose a right of way. The farmer was not happy we were there and asked us to leave, but was worried that I knew it used to be a footpath ! Use it or loose it !
 
#17 ·
A footpath through a crop had to be a yard across now 1 metre. But if the landowner can prove it has not been used for X years (can't remember the number) it can be closed. When married my wife owned a field with a path diagonaly across it a walker walked it once a year to keep it open as the path went from nowhere to nowhere no one else ever used it In the next couple of years all paths not on the official register will be extinguished
 
#21 ·
Some years ago in Wales, my wife and I were trialling a walk for a school party with our Gordon Setter (dog), when a farmer stormed over and threatened to shoot the dog ! It was on a lead and we were on a public footpath ? He objected to people on his land and all dogs attacked sheep !
I offered to send the dog amongst his sheep and if he attacked his sheep I would shoot him ! He did not believe me, but let me try. I sent the dog into the middle of the flock and sat him down, then moved the sheep past the dog. Called him back through the sheep and sat him next to the farmer ! He was impressed, I used to shoot with the dog 2 or 3 times a week ! He was that impressed that he offered to show the school party round his farm when they came. We parted as friends !!!
 
#22 ·
Some years ago in Wales, my wife and I were trialling a walk for a school party with our Gordon Setter (dog), when a farmer stormed over and threatened to shoot the dog ! It was on a lead and we were on a public footpath ? He objected to people on his land and all dogs attacked sheep !
I offered to send the dog amongst his sheep and if he attacked his sheep I would shoot him ! He did not believe me, but let me try. I sent the dog into the middle of the flock and sat him down, then moved the sheep past the dog. Called him back through the sheep and sat him next to the farmer ! He was impressed, I used to shoot with the dog 2 or 3 times a week ! He was that impressed that he offered to show the school party round his farm when they came. We parted as friends !!!
He wouldn't be my friend after threatening to sboot my dog. Particularly if they were on a lead.
 
#23 ·
The Ramblers seem to be doing a cracking job of registering RoWs. I was worried that a lot of footpaths would go the way of commons, but they reckon they've mapped 100% of the UK's paths! https://dontloseyourway.ramblers.org.uk/

I've signed up for updates and will do anything I reasonably can to protect RoWs. I share the feelings of others on here about landowners who try to limit the use of or extinguish those rights - they are stealing rights from the people of the UK.

On poaching, I don't think we need better laws just better enforcement. Fishing where others have fishing rights is theft - there should be prosecutions and the value of the fish and dishing should be better recognized by the police. Its thousands of pounds being stolen. Might be worth bringing private prosecutions.

And kayakers - oooomph. Such nonsense that they can kayak wherever they want. Would love to see that properly enforced. I've been a kayaker myself but you have to respect the rules!
 
#25 ·
Before we moved to the village we lived in now, the next village down the road, on the swale, you could walk for miles along the river along public footpaths.
Some time before we moved here, some new people took over the farm, locked all the gates so you can only walk on two fields, and put up 'permissive footpath only' signs everywhere.
Not sure how they've been allowed to do it, as far as I understand it has always been a public footpath and is marked as such on the OS map i have.
 
#26 ·
If you report it to the Ramblers, they will take action. People often try to practically extinguish rights of way in this manner and it's illegal. Apart from the loss of unregistered RoWs in 2026 under the new law non-use doesn't seem to extinguish rights of way - I can't find any specific info on public rights of way but private RoWs are extinguished even by loooong terms of non use (100+ years).

I'll report the case to the Ramblers myself if you share the details.
 
#29 ·
The Ramblers seem to be doing a cracking job of registering RoWs. I was worried that a lot of footpaths would go the way of commons, but they reckon they've mapped 100% of the UK's paths! https://dontloseyourway.ramblers.org.uk/
Well they haven't mapped the Thames path which has been under attack for years by developers building on it, an office block was built in London, the only way to use the Thames path now is to walk through the foyer past security, who will try to stop you. Then we have residents along the banks of the Thames putting up gates and private property signs to deter people from using a public right of way.
 
#30 ·
There are all sorts of reasons people don't like other people on their land.
In general though they just resent people being there.
A guy who owns a house over the road has a field which i walk our dogs across occasionally. A public footpath goes across the middle of it. No livestock when i go on it, if there are I don't bother.
The other day he came out and asked me to put them on a lead, and that he didn't like people on there , because it encourages other people to go on it, that he'd tried to amend the footpath so that it ran parallel to the hedge rather than across the field, etc, etc.
None of which is up to him at all.
People like that have no right to come out of their house and try to tell walkers what to do.
Most of them clearly are well off, so if they have a problem with people walking on their land, maybe they should move somewhere where people aren't legally entitled to do so.
No, you have no right to walk all over his field. Stick to the footpath.If he wants to apply to the council to change the route of the footpath, so what? You'll get a longer walk.
 
#31 ·
I walked across the field, along the footpath, which goes through the middle of it.
The ramblers, he said, objected to him changing the route, good on them.
If you live in a big house with a load of land and a few people decide to exercise their legal right to walk on a small piece of it, so what?
 
#33 ·
If you try to block a footpath with an aggressive bull you'll have issues.

Thames path is an issue but a different issue. It's not a single public footpath. The access issue, and even the creation of the path on private land, mostly arises from dirty tricks by developers - promise public access (often on a limited or permissive basis) but then make it difficult or unattractive to actually use. Still outrageous and I'd love to see the ramblers take action on it but not the same as public rights of way. There is an interesting article on it here.
 
#34 ·
I have had the odd run in with people like those in that article, jokers putting up private signs on a public right of way, then telling me I can't fish there. I take no notice of them and carry on fishing, then they get even more animated when they see I have no intention of moving. :D
 
#38 ·
My experience is that people mostly just drop litter. Can't be arsed to chuck it over a hedge any more than to take it home. It's still a blight but it's not a legally (or in my opinion morally) valid reason to close a footpath.

I would LOVE to see fines for litterers, ways of tagging durable litter like bottles to individuals, rules requiring much more packaging to be either biodegradable or reusable (with deposits), and levies on companies that profit from litter to fund cleanup. I'm sure there's a way to analyses which companies' packaging comprise what % of litter and to assign a live proportionally.
 
#40 ·
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Completely agree. See it everywhere. They're disproportionately benefitting from the production of litter so why not make them pay for some litterpickers.

At least their gear is biodegradable though. Crisps and soft drink manufacturers are worse in some ways (though less visible).
 
#45 ·
On the main estate where I pick up with my dogs in the winter they have put a big sign up on some of their gates to the effect that a dangerous bull resides in those fields. There isn't, but no b*gger goes in there who isn't supposed to. Even if there isn't a bovine in sight anywhere, the sign is enough to keep the unwashed and ungodly out.
 
#47 ·
A big house near me had problems with people entering their garden from a back road, so put a sign up "Beware of Adders". It kept people off - until they were reported to the police ? It encouraged people to try and catch the snakes, so lives were being put at risk - There were no snakes, but the signs were removed and barbed wire put up !!!!
 
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