Polyleader issue..

Wee Jimmy

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I quite like the 5' Light Trout Polyleaders for my dry fly work.I find they improve my turnover better than everything else I've tried.However, Ive been noticing that I am pitching my point fly under the surface on touchdown quite a lot despite me aiming high on the shoot. I can get away with it with some patterns but anything slim and sparse ,which I've been using for decades without any issues before polyleaders,is giving me problems. Has my casting gone to rat **** or is it the polyleader at fault...?
 

colliedog

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Jimmy, is this with a single fly? I find this can be an issue with short leaders generally, furlies and poly leaders in particular. I think PaulD is correct in his analysis. Increasing the tippet length usually sorts it for me.
 

Wee Jimmy

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I'd suggest that the use of a Polyleader has increased the efficiency of your cast / turn over - effectively delivering your fly at greater speed - a slight cut back in your effort on the delivery stroke should sort it out. (y)
That makes a lot of sense Paul, thank you...;)
 

Wee Jimmy

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Jimmy, is this with a single fly? I find this can be an issue with short leaders generally, furlies and poly leaders in particular. I think PaulD is correct in his analysis. Increasing the tippet length usually sorts it for me.

I've noticed it more when using a pair John strangely enough.No problem with the dropper fly,its always the tail fly pitching in. I will usually have another 13 feet of nylon attached to the polyleader.This consists of 5 feet of 0.26mm plus a further 8 foot of 0.16-0.20mm depending on fly size.
I find if my turnover/accuracy is a wee bit compromised when I go much longer than that.
 

aenoon

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I've noticed it more when using a pair John strangely enough.No problem with the dropper fly,its always the tail fly pitching in. I will usually have another 13 feet of nylon attached to the polyleader.This consists of 5 feet of 0.26mm plus a further 8 foot of 0.16-0.20mm depending on fly size.
I find if my turnover/accuracy is a wee bit compromised when I go much longer than that.
Try same without the poly leader?
If results dont "pitch tail fly in", change poly leader to 4/5 ft of 20lbs (0.3 to 0.35) nylon, and try again!
Bert
 

ohanzee

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The natural thing to do is aim higher, but this can give the leader more time to roll out then flip over downwards, I'd aim to have the fly landing at the same moment as the leader straightens.
 

Wee Jimmy

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The strange thing is,I’ve used polyleaders before in the past without any issues.Im only noticing it this season after a few years of fishing without any additional tapers or turnover aids the system.
 

ed_t

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The strange thing is,I’ve used polyleaders before in the past without any issues.Im only noticing it this season after a few years of fishing without any additional tapers or turnover aids the system.
From the above and this question "Has my casting gone to rat ****"... have you just developed a finish that works without the extra assistance, and now as suggested above need to ease off a little?
 

Wee Jimmy

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From the above and this question "Has my casting gone to rat ****"... have you just developed a finish that works without the extra assistance, and now as suggested above need to ease off a little?
Yeah I reckon that’s exactly what is going on Ed.
 

kingf000

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I've noticed it more when using a pair John strangely enough.No problem with the dropper fly,its always the tail fly pitching in. I will usually have another 13 feet of nylon attached to the polyleader.This consists of 5 feet of 0.26mm plus a further 8 foot of 0.16-0.20mm depending on fly size.
I find if my turnover/accuracy is a wee bit compromised when I go much longer than that.
Apologies for my ignorance and I'm sure what you are doing is right for you, but I'm struggling to see the benefit of a 5ft lite polyleader connected to 13 ft of leader/tippet. I usually use the 5ft lite with a much shorter and finer tippet - 3-6ft of tapered 0.16 - 0.12mm - the shorter when I want accuracy in presentation. 0.26mm after the lite seems a bit heavy as the lite was designed for light lines with delicate tippets? https://www.airflofishing.com/airflo-light-trout-polyleaders-5.html
For your fishing I would normally use the Trout 10ft, then have 3 - 5ft of tippet.
 

Wee Jimmy

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Apologies for my ignorance and I'm sure what you are doing is right for you, but I'm struggling to see the benefit of a 5ft lite polyleader connected to 13 ft of leader/tippet. I usually use the 5ft lite with a much shorter and finer tippet - 3-6ft of tapered 0.16 - 0.12mm - the shorter when I want accuracy in presentation. 0.26mm after the lite seems a bit heavy as the lite was designed for light lines with delicate tippets? https://www.airflofishing.com/airflo-light-trout-polyleaders-5.html
For your fishing I would normally use the Trout 10ft, then have 3 - 5ft of tippet.

Yeah it may seem a bit unconventional but for fishing multiple dry flies it’s the way I’ve always done it from day one.Whether it be tapered braids,tapered leaders or polyleaders, I’m using them in five foots lengths largely as a means of stepping down from the flyline to the leader .However,I’ve found they also improve turnover and presentation as a by product.
Actually,If you measure the core of polyleaders (both light trout and trout versions are the same)you will find it is 0.26mm so it fits into the system pretty well.
They were very possibly designed to be used more as you describe ,as furlies are used but I can assure you they do turn over a further 13-15 foot of leader very well.
 

Mrtrout

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Hi Jim, I’m a furlie man as you know, in the past I tried braided leaders but found they hold water and the spray on lift off was awful.
Whats the difference between a braided leader and a Poly leader, do Poly leaders not take in water?
I rarely fish a team of three except on Ullswater and that’s come to a halt now as my partner who owned the boat had a hissy fit. :)when I do I use a 5ft mono furlie with maybe 12 to 15 ft of tippet with two droppers but fishing conventional wets not dries, that works for me but I can’t comment on using dries.
On the river I fish a single dry fly and for that I find a furlie gives great turnover.
Happy to knock up a mono furlie for you to try FOC, well greased up they don’t cause spray, but having read your posts it looks like you’ve already tried one.
Drop me a PM if you want one.
S.
 

easker1

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I had similar problems but not with a polyleader but I was having a similar problem I found by judging just before the landing I pulled back on the line (gently of course) and found my flies settled just the way I wanted , it took a few tries but I am happy I can do it 90% of the time, easker1
 

Wee Jimmy

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Hi Jim, I’m a furlie man as you know, in the past I tried braided leaders but found they hold water and the spray on lift off was awful.
Whats the difference between a braided leader and a Poly leader, do Poly leaders not take in water?
S.

Hi Steven ,aye the spray from the braid was one of the things which made me look for alternatives.Polyleaders ( floating)are more or less the same as tapered nylon leaders only they float and don’t drag the line tip under ,Ive not noticed them taking on water. I did try a couple of furled leaders,one of which I’m sure you kindly gave me to try out.Greased up they float fine with no spritz as you say but I didn’t find them particularly good at helping turn over the leader lengths that I like to use.Im pretty sure they are not designed to,you will know better than me but they are more effective with shorter tippet sections.The other thing I’m not keen about is the hacksawing in the tip ring when playing a fish.

I’m probably going to go back to just keeping it simple....😉👍
 

Mrtrout

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Hi Steven ,aye the spray from the braid was one of the things which made me look for alternatives.Polyleaders ( floating)are more or less the same as tapered nylon leaders only they float and don’t drag the line tip under ,Ive not noticed them taking on water. I did try a couple of furled leaders,one of which I’m sure you kindly gave me to try out.Greased up they float fine with no spritz as you say but I didn’t find them particularly good at helping turn over the leader lengths that I like to use.Im pretty sure they are not designed to,you will know better than me but they are more effective with shorter tippet sections.The other thing I’m not keen about is the hacksawing in the tip ring when playing a fish.

I’m probably going to go back to just keeping it simple....😉👍

I must have sent you one Jim moons ago, I understand exactly what you’re saying, with tippet lengths like you are using it’s difficult to net fish without having your tippet in the top ring.
And again I agree that with very long tippets a furlie won’t really transfer its energy properly, much better on a single dry with about 7 to 8 ft of tippet.
Perhaps it’s you just getting older Jim, and losing your touch. ;)
S.
 

kingf000

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Please excuse my ignorance again but when would you use a 2 or 3 dry fly rig? I use dry fly with 1 or 2 nymphs but have never used two dries, though I've read about it being suggested. On the rivers, I find presentation and drag avoidance of the dry fly of most importance which I would have thought would be even more difficult to control with multiple dry flies. There seem to be very few reports on the internet and the only thing I could find is fishing a dun and emerger together, to get the best of both worlds. I could imagine using it on a still a water where it is unclear what fly or flies the fish are feeding on.
 

Wee Jimmy

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Please excuse my ignorance again but when would you use a 2 or 3 dry fly rig?

I use this tactic when fishing on large reservoirs or lochs,usually from a boat.As well as imitating whatever happens to be on the water at the time,it can be very effective even when there are very few fish rising and nothing to come up for...👍
 

kingf000

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I use this tactic when fishing on large reservoirs or lochs,usually from a boat.As well as imitating whatever happens to be on the water at the time,it can be very effective even when there are very few fish rising and nothing to come up for...👍
Thank you. I have only fished large waters from the bank so never come across it!
 

Paul_B

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Please excuse my ignorance again but when would you use a 2 or 3 dry fly rig? I use dry fly with 1 or 2 nymphs but have never used two dries, though I've read about it being suggested. On the rivers, I find presentation and drag avoidance of the dry fly of most importance which I would have thought would be even more difficult to control with multiple dry flies. There seem to be very few reports on the internet and the only thing I could find is fishing a dun and emerger together, to get the best of both worlds. I could imagine using it on a still a water where it is unclear what fly or flies the fish are feeding on.
I fish either one or two flies when fishing from the bank using a 10ft leader, we have a two fly rule anyway.
I prefer to have a dry on the point and a wet or diawl bach type on dropper (to sink the line a bit), if theres plenty of ripple I'm quite happy with just one fly, however if fishing with wets I like to use 2.
 
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