River Lugg

3lbgrayling

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Ahhh, but do we really know the actual facts?
This is pre planned, extensive management of a riparian owners river bank, took days to do, not the odd hour here and there.
It has not been a spur of the moment operation.
Looks a bit like (on a far minor level) the flood prevention methods carried on on Tay, Dee, Nith, Annan, Tweed et al. Some of which, as you know, I have been involved in.
Lets see what comes out in the wash.
Sure, if its just some landowner making it easier for the cows to drink (extremely doubtful!) then prosecute, but there is a lot more to this one than meets the eye, or indeed the local naturalists viewpoints!

Bert

Still think you are wrong Bert.This is an important river,.and permissionn would never have been given for ad hock flood prevention especially at spawning time.I think you are just being ''Bert' 'Ie Beligerent.

Jim.
 

aenoon

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Still think you are wrong Bert.This is an important river,.and permissionn would never have been given for ad hock flood prevention.I think yoy are just being ''Bert' 'Ie Beligerent.

Jim.
Perhaps Jim, but given the situation, and indeed the importance of said river, do you think any landowner would re landscape a mile of the bank without investigating their position?
Beligerent maybe, but until its all been investigated, we cant pre judge.
Some of the claims levelled have been somewhat ludicrous.
Is it going to stop the run of salmon and sea trout as accused?
nope, dont think so.
It looks awful, yes it does.
But thats now, it will improve visually, very quickly, but hey, I am sitting on fence at moment.

Bert
 

PaulD

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Ahhh, but do we really know the actual facts?
This is pre planned, extensive management of a riparian owners river bank, took days to do, not the odd hour here and there.
Bert

The Brinks Mat robbery was extensively planned and managed and took more than the odd hour.

Mickey McAvoy enjoyed a sentence of 25 years in Her Majesty's accommodation. Whoever's done this deserves the same.
 

boisker

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Severe lack of knowledge might actually end up the swansong of those with criticism of the works.
Wait till it has been properly investigated.
Woohoo, will be a lot more than grass that starts to grow back in the next year b.t.w.
And dont attack my knowledge of that type of work on riverbanks, you are out of your depth.
Pun intended.
Bert
Yeah what would I know, worked in conservation all my careeer, currently manage over 50 sites and 26 SSSI’s, have delivered and worked in river /catchments projects.... but you think the river will be fine, even though what you drives the rivers process has been ripped out made into into a ‘nice’ sloping bank...
depressing when even people on a fly fishing forum don’t understand just how devastating that type of work is...
go and get your blanket, put your feet up and enjoy your retirement...
 

bobmiddlepoint

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Perhaps Jim, but given the situation, and indeed the importance of said river, do you think any landowner would re landscape a mile of the bank without investigating their position?


Bert

Well I've seen numerous examples of farmers just going in and doing "work" of this nature and of this scale without investigating anything. Have digger will dig.
Have a look at the before and after pictures and have a think, meanwhile I've just spotted a brick wall that I need to bag my head against.

Andy
 

shropshire_lad

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I think Bert has a point that we do not yet know all the facts. However, that's as far as I'd go. If this has made the national press like Jim's photo suggests then it seems pretty clear there is widespread unease (at best), disgust (at worst) at what has happened here.

Aside from what we see above ground these works will presumably have sent large amounts of sediment downstream and this will continue with nothing stabilising the banks. This will leave a blanket on the river bed rendering it sterile for months/years to come.

I agree with a post above that something has to change. Where crimes have been committed there need to be far stiffer penalties. I like the idea of a community service aspect for the Directors of companies found guilty. The press attention when they are actively involved in clean up and restoration may focus minds more than fines.
 

Mr Notherone

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The rights and obligations of riparian owners are very clear and publicly available. It’s very hard to believe that destruction on this scale can be down to ignorance, particularly in a SSSI.
 

shropshire_lad

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The rights and obligations of riparian owners are very clear and publicly available. It’s very hard to believe that destruction on this scale can be down to ignorance, particularly in a SSSI.
I was left a bit uncertain from the original article whether this specific stretch was in a SSSI as it says the lower stretches of the Lugg are but does not say this stretch specifically is? I assume it probably is part of the SSSI.
 

boisker

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I was left a bit uncertain from the original article whether this specific stretch was in a SSSI as it says the lower stretches of the Lugg are but does not say this stretch specifically is? I assume it probably is part of the SSSI.

MagicMap (DEFRA) shows the whole of The Lugg is SSSI (marked green on the map) and is surrounded by a SSSI impact risk zone (purple on map) which requires all development activities to be assessed for impact against the SSSI
 

shropshire_lad

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JayP you can't read the article unless you subscribe to the paper
I can't access the Telegraph article either but it's interesting that the Telegraph, a right wing paper, is the only media outlet I can find to give any rationale for the destruction.

If that reason is true, how can anyone in their right mind think this sort of act helps to mitigate flooding? Vegetation absorbs and retards water, nature is far cleverer and more efficient than us.

I think this extract from a news report summarises the feelings of many on here, including myself.

Guy Linley-Adams, a lawyer for the charity Salmon and Trout Conservation, who lives nearby, witnessed the destruction to the river, which is protected as an SSSI, site of special scientific interest.

He called for prosecution of those responsible. “This is one of the most egregious acts of ecological vandalism that I have seen in 25 years of working on rivers in the UK,” he said. “I have been on site and I am shaking with anger at what has been done to my local river.

“There can be no excuse if the perpetrator is not now prosecuted to the fullest extent possible. His financial assets should also be taken to pay to restore the river, a restoration that will take decades.”
 

glueman

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I can't access the Telegraph article either but it's interesting that the Telegraph, a right wing paper, is the only media outlet I can find to give any rationale for the destruction.

If that reason is true, how can anyone in their right mind think this sort of act helps to mitigate flooding? Vegetation absorbs and retards water, nature is far cleverer and more efficient than us.

I think this extract from a news report summarises the feelings of many on here, including myself.

Guy Linley-Adams, a lawyer for the charity Salmon and Trout Conservation, who lives nearby, witnessed the destruction to the river, which is protected as an SSSI, site of special scientific interest.

He called for prosecution of those responsible. “This is one of the most egregious acts of ecological vandalism that I have seen in 25 years of working on rivers in the UK,” he said. “I have been on site and I am shaking with anger at what has been done to my local river.

“There can be no excuse if the perpetrator is not now prosecuted to the fullest extent possible. His financial assets should also be taken to pay to restore the river, a restoration that will take decades.”
There is an article that says the local parish council had an email from EA saying the river bank needed sorting and it was up to the landowner to do it.
 

boisker

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There is an article that says the local parish council had an email from EA saying the river bank needed sorting and it was up to the landowner to do it.
that would be immaterial... licences would still be required, impact assessment of works etc... i can’t for one minute believe that EA used language such as “the river bank needed sorting”...
certainly ripping out a section of riverbed and unleashing a torrent of sediment downstream, to flow through a SSSi and further downstream an SAC, during spawning are actions I doubt the EA had in mind

the river Axe in Devon is a SSSI and SAC... to use the simplistic language above... EA and NE would have said that the “bank needs sorting”... by which they would have meant, tight cattle grazing and an unfettered cattle access direct into the river ”needed sorting”... resolved by removing cattle access from the river, stopping the bank from eroding and the river widening... as opposed to take a bulldozer to it and smash the @@@@ out of it
 
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shropshire_lad

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that would be immaterial... licences would still be required, impact assessment of works etc... i can’t for one minute believe that EA used language such as “the river bank needed sorting”...
certainly ripping out a section of riverbed and unleashing a torrent of sediment downstream, to flow through a SSSi and further downstream an SAC, during spawning are actions I doubt the EA had in mind
Indeed, the EA are usually risk averse and pedantic in my experience.

I don't mean that in a bad way necessarily, it's just the approach they generally take. They are usually very cautious putting the onus on the other party to demonstrate negligible risk. Impact assessments and risk assessments until the cows (excuse the pun) come home.
 
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