Riverkeeper, Fishery Worker, Fishery Manager or Water Bailiff

warrenslaney

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I think I know the difference but having spoken a journalist recently about these roles, I'm not so sure. What was Sawyer? What was William Lunn? Are there any riverkeepers left, and were there any in the first place?
 

sewinbasher

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I think I know the difference but having spoken a journalist recently about these roles, I'm not so sure. What was Sawyer? What was William Lunn? Are there any riverkeepers left, and were there any in the first place?
I am not sure that names matter too much unless salaries differ but in terms of pure nomenclature a "riverkeeper" implies care for a whole river, "fishery worker" and "fishery manager" imply jobs at a manual and more executive level on a single fishery as opposed to a whole river and a "water bailiff" is generally accepted to be a "river policeman" and has little to do with the management or care of the river.

In practice I'm sure that many of the roles overlap, especially that of water bailiff as opposed to Environment Agency Enforcement Officer.

My own view is that Sawyer and Lunn were fishery managers as they both looked after specific fisheries, the Officers' Fishing Association on the Upper Avon and Houghton Club on the Test respectively.
 

warrenslaney

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So Lunn and Sawyer both looked after the running of the fishery? Do you think, especially in Sawyer's case, someone else administrated the running of the club (for want of a better more appropriate word) and therefore the fishery? Are there people left and have there ever been, people who simply look after the river, principally for the welbeing of that river and are therefore river keepers?

I know a guy who headed a team who strimmed, stocked and coddled the anglers. He called himself a head river keeper. Was he in fact the opposite of that?
 

Guest666

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Unless it has changed the role that Sawyer filled is keeper, the Services appoints the association committee positions..
 
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BobP

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I am friendly with two river keepers who between them look after about 12 miles of the Kennet and associated carriers. They work for a large estate & the estate manager is responsible, among other things, for all the admin that goes with the management of the fishery. The keepers deal with all the day to day stuff and work to a plan arrived at in agreement with the estate manager, ie we will replace xx bridges this winter & will carry out yy amounts of in-channel enhancements and so on.

I know four other keepers on the Kennet who carry out similar duties on their fisheries. Three work for estate fisheries and one for a very ancient organisation that goes back to John O' Gaunt.

Sawyer and Lunn were the classic river keepers of their day.

40 years ago when I was a river keeper on the Wylye that is what I was - one of 2 river keepers. Above us there was a head keeper, and above him a Water Warden - fisheries manager - who reported to a committee.

A water bailiff is an outmoded term and implies a position with a fair degree of policing work which river keepers are not empowered to do. A water bailiff will have a warrant that gives him the powers of a constable in connection with matters affecting fisheries. We now have Enforcement Officers who deal with all aspects of environmental policing which is why they are rare sightings on a river bank.
 

sewinbasher

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So Lunn and Sawyer both looked after the running of the fishery? Do you think, especially in Sawyer's case, someone else administrated the running of the club (for want of a better more appropriate word) and therefore the fishery? Are there people left and have there ever been, people who simply look after the river, principally for the welbeing of that river and are therefore river keepers?

I know a guy who headed a team who strimmed, stocked and coddled the anglers. He called himself a head river keeper. Was he in fact the opposite of that?
Very possibly so, I'm not sure what the point of the thread is other than playing with semantics over wording. Neither Sawyer or Lunn looked after a whole river so "river keeper" would not be accurate, if someone else looked after the admin then he might have been a beat keeper or fishery keeper (or "bit of a river keeper"), who cares? They were both greats for various reasons.
 

oscarthecat

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Don't know the answer to your question, Warren, but whatever you are doing on the Haddon Estate waters is working very well, so don't worry about what people call you, just keep on doing it. I am sure they appreciate it.
OtC
 

linkledger

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How about this guy who a lot of people may have read,

" Tom Williams was head river-keeper on the Longford Estate on the Hampshire Avon. His weekly articles in the Angler's Mail were read by many"

His book is a great read. Met him once in the Bull at Downton a great character.
 

warrenslaney

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Very possibly so, I'm not sure what the point of the thread is other than playing with semantics over wording. Neither Sawyer or Lunn looked after a whole river so "river keeper" would not be accurate, if someone else looked after the admin then he might have been a beat keeper or fishery keeper (or "bit of a river keeper"), who cares? They were both greats for various reasons.
Thanks for this reply especially the introduction of the term 'beatkeeper' which I have heard before, but not for a while and which seems to cover the role usually termed 'riverkeeper' very well. Those employed to carry out fishery tasks on behalf of fishery owners or fishing clubs are certainly not riverkeepers, as they maintain a fishery for anglers and could be called beatkeepers. Those who carry out admin inc budgets, advertising and employment might be termed fishery managers. What about those river-restorationists. Even in a white hard hat and a hi-vis tabard, possibly closer to being a riverkeeper that most chalkstream beatkeeper/fishery workers.

---------- Post added at 05:30 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:26 PM ----------

How about this guy who a lot of people may have read,

" Tom Williams was head river-keeper on the Longford Estate on the Hampshire Avon. His weekly articles in the Angler's Mail were read by many"

His book is a great read. Met him once in the Bull at Downton a great character.
I worked on these beats and met TW a number of times, both in the Bull and on the banks. A fishery worker in my opinion. If I ever met one I would take my hat off to a proper riverkeeper on the Hants Avon, the only other river I would work on.
 

beryl

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I am friendly with two river keepers who between them look after about 12 miles of the Kennet and associated carriers. They work for a large estate & the estate manager is responsible, among other things, for all the admin that goes with the management of the fishery. The keepers deal with all the day to day stuff and work to a plan arrived at in agreement with the estate manager, ie we will replace xx bridges this winter & will carry out yy amounts of in-channel enhancements and so on.

I know four other keepers on the Kennet who carry out similar duties on their fisheries. Three work for estate fisheries and one for a very ancient organisation that goes back to John O' Gaunt.

Sawyer and Lunn were the classic river keepers of their day.

40 years ago when I was a river keeper on the Wylye that is what I was - one of 2 river keepers. Above us there was a head keeper, and above him a Water Warden - fisheries manager - who reported to a committee.

A water bailiff is an outmoded term and implies a position with a fair degree of policing work which river keepers are not empowered to do. A water bailiff will have a warrant that gives him the powers of a constable in connection with matters affecting fisheries. We now have Enforcement Officers who deal with all aspects of environmental policing which is why they are rare sightings on a river bank.
You get some grief at times. I for one don't always agree with you but always look forward to your posts.
 

MrP

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On a slightly different subject, Warren.

Flog It - you're not kidding!
 

beryl

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This is a bit of thread for those in or close to the job. It could advertise the fishery too:) No problem. if i spend fifty quid getting to Peacock country it would be rude not to spend the same on a day's fishing....?

Just thinking like.....
 
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