Role of the Wrist

Perch@1

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This subject is rarely discussed.
There are some who think the wrist should not be used at all in casting.
Others consider the use of the wrist at the end of the forward cast is to achieve-
- the final power snap
-drift
-'turndown' to avoid tailing loops
-rotation after translation
-the 'tap'
I know my view. What's yours?

Rusty
I'm learning double haul and I could be wrong in what I right here, ok rusty?

I might use the wrist by mistake but generally I prefer to keep the rod pushed up against my arm.

Perform cast, do what I've learned to double haul, but at the end of cast I always forget to shoot to the sky

But what I've learned today is when you perform the downup add bounce to it (thanks Paul B 👍) , might give improved line speed....... longer distance???

Fish safe and happy, Neil 🎣
 

Rhithrogena

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We all instinctively use the wrist and arm together when using any number of tools. Pick up a hammer and pretend to hit a nail into a wall. Now pretend it's a BIG nail and a lump hammer and watch your arm and the angle and direction of the of the hammer-head as your arm comes back.....

Now just do that with your rod. It might help to imagine standing between two walls a few feet apart. You're going to hit a nail into the wall behind you with the back of the hammer and then come foward and hit the one in front. Simples.

Any kid can instinctively do this well. Give a kid a stick with a ball of mud stuck to the end and tell them to flick the mud off in front of them. Then get them to flick the mud behind....
Some talk about painting a ceiling, flicking water off a brush etc., all useful analogies, but BE the kid with the stick...
 

rusty

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Here are interesting exerts-

'........controlled wrist break can be massively beneficial, particularly when driving a fly into a niiggling breeze
by 'controlled' we mean deliberate when the actual wrist break on a back cast occurs after we've stopped the rod tip. Now, as we wait for the line to unfurl behind us, we can crank our wrist open, which in turn moves the rod tip back as well. This powerless movement is similar to drift, which generally involves repositioning of the hand and forearm.

When it comes to completing the forward cast now we can tap forward with the wrist still open.Only when the forearm has nearly stopped moving do we snap the wrist shut by flipping it forward in one swift movement. As little force is required now, chances are the rod will not be subjected to unwanted shock and buckle unnecessarily. Instead the rod moves extremely quicklythrough a wide arc generating massive line speed so the line literally zips out.'

The above was written by Paul Proctor in a Trout Fisherman article on Casting into a Headwind March 2018.

Interesting!

Rusty
 

Perch@1

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Messages
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We all instinctively use the wrist and arm together when using any number of tools. Pick up a hammer and pretend to hit a nail into a wall. Now pretend it's a BIG nail and a lump hammer and watch your arm and the angle and direction of the of the hammer-head as your arm comes back.....

Now just do that with your rod. It might help to imagine standing between two walls a few feet apart. You're going to hit a nail into the wall behind you with the back of the hammer and then come foward and hit the one in front. Simples.

Any kid can instinctively do this well. Give a kid a stick with a ball of mud stuck to the end and tell them to flick the mud off in front of them. Then get them to flick the mud behind....
Some talk about painting a ceiling, flicking water off a brush etc., all useful analogies, but BE the kid with the stick...
Thank you for advice Rithogena.

Fish safe and happy, Neil 🎣
 

Perch@1

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Joined
Mar 2, 2018
Messages
194
Location
South Wales
Here are interesting exerts-

'........controlled wrist break can be massively beneficial, particularly when driving a fly into a niiggling breeze
by 'controlled' we mean deliberate when the actual wrist break on a back cast occurs after we've stopped the rod tip. Now, as we wait for the line to unfurl behind us, we can crank our wrist open, which in turn moves the rod tip back as well. This powerless movement is similar to drift, which generally involves repositioning of the hand and forearm.

When it comes to completing the forward cast now we can tap forward with the wrist still open.Only when the forearm has nearly stopped moving do we snap the wrist shut by flipping it forward in one swift movement. As little force is required now, chances are the rod will not be subjected to unwanted shock and buckle unnecessarily. Instead the rod moves extremely quicklythrough a wide arc generating massive line speed so the line literally zips out.'

The above was written by Paul Proctor in a Trout Fisherman article on Casting into a Headwind March 2018.

Interesting!

Rusty
Cheers Rusty something I need to include in my double hauling.

Fish safe and happy, Neil 🎣
 

andygrey

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We all instinctively use the wrist and arm together when using any number of tools. Pick up a hammer and pretend to hit a nail into a wall. Now pretend it's a BIG nail and a lump hammer and watch your arm and the angle and direction of the of the hammer-head as your arm comes back.....

Now just do that with your rod. It might help to imagine standing between two walls a few feet apart. You're going to hit a nail into the wall behind you with the back of the hammer and then come foward and hit the one in front. Simples.

Any kid can instinctively do this well. Give a kid a stick with a ball of mud stuck to the end and tell them to flick the mud off in front of them. Then get them to flick the mud behind....
Some talk about painting a ceiling, flicking water off a brush etc., all useful analogies, but BE the kid with the stick...
Thanks for this, a really good analogy.
 

ohanzee

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We all instinctively use the wrist and arm together when using any number of tools. Pick up a hammer and pretend to hit a nail into a wall. Now pretend it's a BIG nail and a lump hammer and watch your arm and the angle and direction of the of the hammer-head as your arm comes back.....

Now just do that with your rod. It might help to imagine standing between two walls a few feet apart. You're going to hit a nail into the wall behind you with the back of the hammer and then come foward and hit the one in front. Simples.

Any kid can instinctively do this well. Give a kid a stick with a ball of mud stuck to the end and tell them to flick the mud off in front of them. Then get them to flick the mud behind....
Some talk about painting a ceiling, flicking water off a brush etc., all useful analogies, but BE the kid with the stick...

I saw quite a nice one, old but wise instructor finishes his coffee and handed the cardboard cup to a beginner then asked him to half fill it with water, stand in the water and flick the water out of the cup over his shoulder and get as far as he could, he did it a couple of times and got it quite far, then he said get it to go that far with less effort, then do the same forwards.

It worked but what it did mainly was stop him overthinking it and just do it naturally.
 

Rhithrogena

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I saw quite a nice one, old but wise instructor finishes his coffee and handed the cardboard cup to a beginner then asked him to half fill it with water, stand in the water and flick the water out of the cup over his shoulder and get as far as he could, he did it a couple of times and got it quite far, then he said get it to go that far with less effort, then do the same forwards.

It worked but what it did mainly was stop him overthinking it and just do it naturally.
like when kids learn to flick each other with tea-towels....
You get the most hurt with a fast tip, and you control the speed with the wrist 😉
 

Perch@1

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I find that the wrist comes into play twice on each cast. You start off with the hand angled downwards and the rod tip pointing towards the water surface or ground. Call it 08.30 or near enough. You then accelerate smoothly to approx 11.00 with the hand still in that same position. Most of the effort is coming from the forearm with some from the upper arm. The line is now travelling up and back through the air and the first "snap" of the wrist drives it back to the stop.

The forward cast is a reversal. The wrist is locked firmly at the beginning of the cast and the power is again coming mostly from the forearm. When that hits the 10.00 position the wrist "snaps" forward to unroll the line and you then follow through to you original start position as the line settles on the ground or water.

This a typical river cast. Once longer distances are required the shoulder comes more into play.

As illustrated by Charles Ritz and Oliver Edwards.
I agree with you BobP, alright I'm learning double haul but I find the wrist comes in twice during cast.

First safe and happy, Neil🎣
 

BobP

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The best way to demonstrate the wrist "Snap" movement is to do what we used to do as kids. Get a nice bendy hazel stick about 3' long. Mould a ball of clay and stick it on the tip. Bring the stick to the upright position and then flick it forward. We used to set up targets 20 yards away and see if or how often we could hit them.
 

BobP

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To practice the wrist snap, knock nails into a wall
As outlined about 65 years ago in Charles Ritz's book "A Fly Fisher's Life." Also use the hammer & nails analogy to describe the whole cast including false casting., eg, hammer in one hand nail in the other; gentle taps to seat nail/extend line; longer & firmer taps to drive nail into wood/extend line further; Final firm hit to seat nail/deliver fly.
 

aenoon

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As outlined about 65 years ago in Charles Ritz's book "A Fly Fisher's Life." Also use the hammer & nails analogy to describe the whole cast including false casting., eg, hammer in one hand nail in the other; gentle taps to seat nail/extend line; longer & firmer taps to drive nail into wood/extend line further; Final firm hit to seat nail/deliver fly.
Too many false casts there for me!
Gentle tap and then firm hit suffices!
Bert
 

bobfly2

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Just an observation but much may depend on what other activities the caster may do. A carpenter is different to a retired office worker. I play several nights a week of county league team badminton and that is a very fast wrist action game. So my casting is readily done off either shoulder and with a snappy delivery if required. There are lots of considerations and little standardisation on a river or in a bouncing boat on a big loch
 

BobP

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Too many false casts there for me!
Gentle tap and then firm hit suffices!
Bert
Depends where you are starting from and how far it is going. Also on the level of experience. I can lift off less than 5 yards of WF5 with a roll pick up. Release a few yards on the false cast and deliver the fly out to 20-23yards. You'll not get a beginner to do that.

Understanding the role of the false cast is just about the most difficult thing for a beginner to get their heads around. The idea of doing longer strokes with more pause as the line lengthens in the air seems totally alien to them. Their internal logic keeps telling them that they have to go faster to keep up with the line. Going slower to go further is a total anathema. What Oliver Edwards called Mickey Mouse ears in the air is all but inevitable.

You can explain it and demonstrate it all you like, and as soon as they get the rod in their hands it disappears out of their heads faster than a puff of smoke.

The next problem for them is letting go. The line is whistling back & forth through the air but they either don't know how to do it, or they are afraid to do it or they think one or two more casts will see the line really fly. It doesn't and usually lands in um big heap five yards short of where they hoped it would.

All good fun.
 

andygrey

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Analogies work well for some, not as well for other. It's not that they don't understand them, it's just that they can't relate them to actual casting. A lot depends if they are visual, auditory or kinesthetic learners. Half the challenge is working out which one they are, it obviously gets complicated if you have a mix of the three in a group!
 

PaulD

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We all carry a 'compound' of the three 'learning styles', albeit in recent years the visual, auditory and kinaesthetic 'labels' have been mostly rejected in education. From experience, my belief is that the majority of those who chose an outdoor, physical activity are more commonly kinaesthetic in learning preference and relate well to physical analogies - the nail hitting, painting a ceiling, flicking ink soaked paper off a ruler etc.

However, I did have a fishing pal who wanted to start shooting, I helped him buy a gun and said I'd give him some clay shooting tips. Hugely clever man . . . but it was like teaching a cow to handle a musket!
 

andygrey

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We all carry a 'compound' of the three 'learning styles', albeit in recent years the visual, auditory and kinaesthetic 'labels' have been mostly rejected in education. From experience, my belief is that the majority of those who chose an outdoor, physical activity are more commonly kinaesthetic in learning preference and relate well to physical analogies - the nail hitting, painting a ceiling, flicking ink soaked paper off a ruler etc.

However, I did have a fishing pal who wanted to start shooting, I helped him buy a gun and said I'd give him some clay shooting tips. Hugely clever man . . . but it was like teaching a cow to handle a musket!
That's very interesting, I believe that kinaesthetic learners make up a very small proportion of people but maybe as you say they are the ones drawn fly fishing.
I supposes that by default most fly casting tuition is kinaesthetic.
 
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