Rutland

dolbisaurus

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Joined
Aug 20, 2020
Messages
9
Think yourself lucky mate...you would still be pissing about on the canal if I had any say in it....👍

You are the one that should think yourself lucky. If it wasn't for predator angler you wouldn't have a decent winter income!

For the record I fish for wild trout in rivers where I don't expect someone to stock em for me. If you have issues catching on AW waters you need to turn your rods in flower.
 

shropshire_lad

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May 31, 2017
Messages
2,917
Location
Too far away from the wild places!
Has anyone considered this in the contact of the "evolution" of the Water Companies?

I wonder when the heyday of reservoir trout fishing was - was it 1980s, 1990s? Remember, the Water Companies were privatised in 1989. They enjoyed a few initial rounds of quite generous price reviews but Ofwat is certainly on their case now and rightly so. The bean counters and accountants that have been mentioned in posts above will be lurking in the background and studying things carefully. They won't want to fund things that don't offer a return.

Nature reserves, public access, sailing, walking, cycling are all pretty low cost to run I'd have thought and generate that all important PR that make the water companies look good. I would also have thought coarse (including predator) fishing was relatively low cost and may even generate a return. As for trout fishing, I'm not sure? They certainly make money out of me as my average catch return this year has been sweet FA but overall?
 

codyarrow

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Feb 6, 2010
Messages
4,004
Is there a relationship between the introduction of 100.000's of lbs of trout protein and predator size in the water? If so seems logical that there will be a decline for both fishing sectors until an accommodation is found.
The market will decide if large water fly fishing only for stocked rainbows is viable anymore.
 

Rob Edmunds

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Joined
May 8, 2008
Messages
3,659
Location
Midlands Reservoirs
Oh Dolbi...or whats your real name...??

Just in case you think I'm hiding...


Perhaps if you read the full thread you will understand the feelings of resentment us trout anglers, who have spent years at the water, only to see it slowly destroyed have.

You shouldn't take everything so literally, and get upset.......I knew it was only a matter of time before some **** ( insert appropriate word ) like yourself would bite, and it was the best take of the day - thanks!!

I'm allowed to have an opinion - just because it differs from yours . TOUGH....anyway I've no problem with Predator anglers fishing the reservoirs, providing they use a fly, and not deadbaits, spinners, plugs etc....

The trouble is most Predator anglers can't cast a fly, and dont want to learn .

They are generally ( not all) clueless on the water, motoring up your drifts, casting where you are fishing etc.....is it any wonder why I can't stand you...

You bivvy up at Pitsford fishing 3 rods in an arc all 50 to 100m out all with deadbaits and I can't get near the bank.....i've seen countless browns caught and killed as a result of them swallowing deadbaits .. how is that right....

You're right I've no time for you....

Anyway get back on Facebook or your Predator forum and get your friends to all register on here so you can spout off , and claim it's not that bad really, and 65,000 trout is plenty....

If you think that's the case on a water the size and depth of Rutland with an 11 month long season and the number of anglers there really is no hope for you.....
 
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dolbisaurus

Member
Joined
Aug 20, 2020
Messages
9
Oh Dolbi...or whats your real name...??

Just in case you think I'm hiding...


Perhaps if you read the full thread you will understand the feelings of resentment us trout anglers, who have spent years at the water, only to see it slowly destroyed have.

You shouldn't take everything so literally, and get upset.......I knew it was only a matter of time before some **** ( insert appropriate word ) like yourself would bite, and it was the best take of the day - thanks!!

I'm allowed to have an opinion - just because it differs from yours . TOUGH....anyway I've no problem with Predator anglers fishing the reservoirs, providing they use a fly, and not deadbaits, spinners, plugs etc....

The trouble is most Predator anglers can't cast a fly, and dont want to learn .

They are generally ( not all) clueless on the water, motoring up your drifts, casting where you are fishing etc.....is it any wonder why I can't stand you...

You bivvy up at Pitsford fishing 3 rods in an arc all 50 to 100m out all with deadbaits and I can't get near the bank.....i've seen countless browns caught and killed as a result of them swallowing deadbaits .. how is that right....

You're right I've no time for you....

Anyway get back on Facebook or your Predator forum and get your friends to all register on here so you can spout off , and claim it's not that bad really, and 65,000 trout is plenty....

If you think that's the case on a water the size and depth of Rutland with an 11 month long season and the number of anglers there really is no hope for you.....

Right lets get this straight. I have read the whole thread and I came to the conclusion that you are basically not accepting of anyone who doesn't fit in with the angling you wish them to partake in.

You not only voiced your dismay at predator anglers but also at other trout anglers that were happy to catch stockies on rudder. This is all because it doesn't fit your ideals.

Well, luckily you represent a very small portion of the fly angling community. It was people like you that stopped me going fly fishing because of your attitudes. Also you being a **** (insert own word) towards other areas of angling is not gonna help your plight.

Why should everyone who fishes on any of the Reservoirs have to fish on the fly? If you wana fish on the fly for any fish, then that is your choice. As for big browns being caught at Pitsford, I do not doubt at all that it happens but do you not see the irony in your little "knickers jn a twist" rant. You and other trout anglers would be quite happy to kill thise same fish.

Now lets look at your attack on the genral predator anglers on there. You say most are clueless. How do you know that? Or is it just because they dont cast a fly like you? I bet their is plenty of trout anglers who motor across those vast expances of water and dont have any idea what to do.

So lets get a few things clear: I have never at anypoint said that the reduced stocking is acceptable at Rutland. That only has a knock on effect for the trout and pike anglers. The perch and zander in the resrvoirs are feeding on their own off spring and other small course species in there.

Apart from taking boats (Pitsford excluded) what are predator anglers doing that actually directly affects your trout fishing?

I have been to Grafham numerous times in the deep cold winter and seen no more than 2 boats taken by trout anglers every time and there were still plenty boats free.

And for the record I also have my opinion. I am currently learning to fly fish for browns in my local river and I only catch and release. I have the upmost respect for every fish I land from minnow to pike. Predator anglers keep AW afloat with a cash injection at a time when much needed day ticket trout anglers would rather stay cosy in their slippers next to the fire. Predator anglers are here to stay, "TOUGH", and have no interest in targeting your quary on the tackle we use for that area of our fishing. I do however support you wish for better stocking levels as they are making a fortune out of us boys and they should be putting it back in.

So have a look at you own attitude towards others, even of your own branch of angling, and allow people to enjoy fishing however they wish as long as it is safe. Your type will not be missed in the angling community as times move further on and leave you and your prehistoric views in the past where they belong.

Lots of love

Ryan x
 
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PaulD

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Joined
Feb 11, 2020
Messages
2,002
Location
South Northants
Last week I was up in the North East, visiting my daughter and grandchildren, and one day we drove over to Derwent Reservoir for a walk and for the kids to play in the play area there. We walked up to the reservoir and most 'anglers' were sitting on stools or boxes (including a young lad, the only one 'fly fishing') the rest were spinning or float fishing with the biggest floats you've ever seen! The only thing I saw caught was a duck that a float fisherman contrived to entangle.

Back near the car park there was a small tackle shop, and being a constipated fisherman I can't pass a tackle shop, and I mentioned to the guy staffing it that I was surprised to see that Derwent was now 'any method'. His response was that it was the only way they could keep it open as a fishery in the area.
 

Rob Edmunds

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Joined
May 8, 2008
Messages
3,659
Location
Midlands Reservoirs
I've been thinking about this a fair bit....because of its important to me .


As such I will try and write a dignified, reasoned response, that can't leave any doubt as why I feel this way.

I have fished Rutland and the other Anglian Waters 2 or 3 times a week for over 40 years, since I was a kid.....They are special to me I love them and have pride in them, they are part of me..

I consider myself a very good angler, who knows the waters and is a regular.....and I don't just fish for trout, I also fly fish for Predators, having caught 30lb+ Pike from all 4 of the Anglian waters and Zander to 18lb ( all on the fly)....I also livebait and deadbait for Pike on local pits because I enjoy it.....and I'd say I'm a good Predator angler as well having caught over 50 x 20lb pike....so don't think for one second think I consider myself somehow "elite" as a fly angler....I'm a good all round angler...

25 years ago Grafham was netted each year and the Pike and other course fish were removed ( I assume this was the case at the other Anglian Waters but don't know 100%)...It was also common practice and encouraged by the fisheries that Predators were killed if caught...this is a fact !

Yes I made a flippant remark that you have taken literally, and got upset about.....it shows your ignorance to be honest

I have absolutely NO problem with the Predatory fish remaining in the waters, I enjoy catching them on the fly, and think they have a negligible impact on the overall quality of the fly fishing.

Rutland is without question a shadow of what it once was, the fishing is poor if you compare it to 15+ years ago....now on an average day I expect to catch just 3 or 4 fish a day.....I should easily catch 9 to 10 just like I do on Grafham, Draycote , Clywedog, Lynn Brenig etc.....If I'm only catching 3 or 4 fish then the average day ticket angler will blank most times.

In order, my reasoning and the factors for the decline of fly fishing on Anglian Waters.

1 - Huge drop in numbers of fish stocked. ( massive impact)

2 - Huge increase in the number of Cormorants on the water.(massive impact)

3 - Lengthened season ( now closes January 31st and opens March 14th) ( massive impact)

4 - Catch & Release when anglers sit on a pod of stockies and hammer 40 out a day when freshly stocked ( although if more fish were stocked this wouldn't be an issue) ( medium impact)

5 - Fluctuating water level causing weedbeds to die off etc... ( medium impact)

6 - Predator anglers fishing the water, catching, pricking trout....targeting trout ( medium impact)

A combination of all the above factors has resulted in a serious decline in the fishing at the Anglian Waters over the last 8 to 10 years.

My issues with Predator anglers....

1 - Some actively target trout
2 - They fish the same water we want to fish for "Fry feeders"
3 - You catch or bump a huge amount of trout and knock them off the feed.
4- Many have zero idea in a boat and motor up drifts
5- You fish 3 or 4 rods on the bank ( Pitsford) and spread them up to 100m apart in an arc.....basically taking up the whole area ( usually a point)

- There are competitions on Pitsford where Predator anglers attempt to catch a 'Grand Slam" of Pike, Perch and Trout the longest combined weight wins.

- I know some Predator anglers who "specifically target" the big browns on deadbaits at Pitsford - This is their intended target not Pike - They have told me this to my face as we have discussed the problem......the fishery staff are aware but can't do anything about it.

- Pitsford allows lure fishing for trout in July and August....after 2 months of spinners, plastics and plugs the fly fishing is ruined....2 of the best 6 man teams in Europe had a " friendly match" last weekend at Pitsford they averaged 1.3 fish per angler with a number of blanks ..( ie Craig Barr)

My wife and son also fished a club get together with 6 anglers catching a grand total of 0 fish !...my wife and son are also internationals so know what they are doing..

I have seen about 12 large browns 6lb plus caught on deadbaits and die as a result

Yes Predator anglers bring in a lot of revenue but this is not reinvested in trout stock....

So you may now understand why I don't like Predator Anglers and don't want them on our waters....the two styles don't mix! ( I can't go fly fishing on Redmire Pool can I the Carp guys would have it)

If you fly fish for Predators fair enough, but I do want to be on the water with spinners and plastics being cast 60m at me when I'm drifting the weedbeds..

If Anglian Water must allow Predator fishing then the Fly fishing season should first end November 31st and Predator fishing only allowed in December..

But in short I don't like the majority of you and don't want you there...
 
Last edited:

squimp

Well-known member
Joined
May 18, 2008
Messages
1,063
Last week I was up in the North East, visiting my daughter and grandchildren, and one day we drove over to Derwent Reservoir for a walk and for the kids to play in the play area there. We walked up to the reservoir and most 'anglers' were sitting on stools or boxes (including a young lad, the only one 'fly fishing') the rest were spinning or float fishing with the biggest floats you've ever seen! The only thing I saw caught was a duck that a float fisherman contrived to entangle.

Back near the car park there was a small tackle shop, and being a constipated fisherman I can't pass a tackle shop, and I mentioned to the guy staffing it that I was surprised to see that Derwent was now 'any method'. His response was that it was the only way they could keep it open as a fishery in the area.

That last line just about sums things up.

takeHanningfield as another example; 50 years ago it was a closed shop members only fly fishing for trout water, Then it was changed to day ticket fly fishing only and now it is day ticket any method.

The writing is on the wall; unless there is a sudden resurgence of interest in Trout fly fishing......And that isn't going to happen.

I should declare an interest, I’m an all rounder both in methods (fly/lure/bait) and species (trout, coarse and sea).
 

dolbisaurus

Member
Joined
Aug 20, 2020
Messages
9
I've been thinking about this a fair bit....because of its important to me .


As such I will try and write a dignified, reasoned response, that can't leave any doubt as why I feel this way.

I have fished Rutland and the other Anglian Waters 2 or 3 times a week for over 40 years, since I was a kid.....They are special to me I love them and have pride in them, they are part of me..

I consider myself a very good angler, who knows the waters and is a regular.....and I don't just fish for trout, I also fly fish for Predators, having caught 30lb+ Pike from all 4 of the Anglian waters and Zander to 18lb ( all on the fly)....I also livebait and deadbait for Pike on local pits because I enjoy it.....and I'd say I'm a good Predator angler as well having caught over 50 x 20lb pike....so don't think for one second think I consider myself somehow "elite" as a fly angler....I'm a good all round angler...

25 years ago Grafham was netted each year and the Pike and other course fish were removed ( I assume this was the case at the other Anglian Waters but don't know 100%)...It was also common practice and encouraged by the fisheries that Predators were killed if caught...this is a fact !

Yes I made a flippant remark that you have taken literally, and got upset about.....it shows your ignorance to be honest

I have absolutely NO problem with the Predatory fish remaining in the waters, I enjoy catching them on the fly, and think they have a negligible impact on the overall quality of the fly fishing.

Rutland is without question a shadow of what it once was, the fishing is poor if you compare it to 15+ years ago....now on an average day I expect to catch just 3 or 4 fish a day.....I should easily catch 9 to 10 just like I do on Grafham, Draycote , Clywedog, Lynn Brenig etc.....If I'm only catching 3 or 4 fish then the average day ticket angler will blank most times.

In order, my reasoning and the factors for the decline of fly fishing on Anglian Waters.

1 - Huge drop in numbers of fish stocked. ( massive impact)

2 - Huge increase in the number of Cormorants on the water.(massive impact)

3 - Lengthened season ( now closes January 31st and opens March 14th) ( massive impact)

4 - Catch & Release when anglers sit on a pod of stockies and hammer 40 out a day when freshly stocked ( although if more fish were stocked this wouldn't be an issue) ( medium impact)

5 - Fluctuating water level causing weedbeds to die off etc... ( medium impact)

6 - Predator anglers fishing the water, catching, pricking trout....targeting trout ( medium impact)

A combination of all the above factors has resulted in a serious decline in the fishing at the Anglian Waters over the last 8 to 10 years.

My issues with Predator anglers....

1 - Some actively target trout
2 - They fish the same water we want to fish for "Fry feeders"
3 - You catch or bump a huge amount of trout and knock them off the feed.
4- Many have zero idea in a boat and motor up drifts
5- You fish 3 or 4 rods on the bank ( Pitsford) and spread them up to 100m apart in an arc.....basically taking up the whole area ( usually a point)

- There are competitions on Pitsford where Predator anglers attempt to catch a 'Grand Slam" of Pike, Perch and Trout the longest combined weight wins.

- I know some Predator anglers who "specifically target" the big browns on deadbaits at Pitsford - This is their intended target not Pike - They have told me this to my face as we have discussed the problem......the fishery staff are aware but can't do anything about it.

- Pitsford allows lure fishing for trout in July and August....after 2 months of spinners, plastics and plugs the fly fishing is ruined....2 of the best 6 man teams in Europe had a " friendly match" last weekend at Pitsford they averaged 1.3 fish per angler with a number of blanks ..( ie Craig Barr)

My wife and son also fished a club get together with 6 anglers catching a grand total of 0 fish !...my wife and son are also internationals so know what they are doing..

I have seen about 12 large browns 6lb plus caught on deadbaits and die as a result

Yes Predator anglers bring in a lot of revenue but this is not reinvested in trout stock....

So you may now understand why I don't like Predator Anglers and don't want them on our waters....the two styles don't mix! ( I can't go fly fishing on Redmire Pool can I the Carp guys would have it)

If you fly fish for Predators fair enough, but I do want to be on the water with spinners and plastics being cast 60m at me when I'm drifting the weedbeds..

If Anglian Water must allow Predator fishing then the Fly fishing season should first end November 31st and Predator fishing only allowed in December..

But in short I don't like the majority of you and don't want you there...
So basically you are an eliteist on the reservoirs then as you don't want "us" there, because you don't want to share your water.

God forbid that someone be fishing an area productivly for zander, perch or pike when you want to be in there for Trout.

You flippant comment was about killing my prized and target fish yet it is ok for you to get a winge on because people are catching trout and killing them," just like you...yet I am ignorant!

I would love to know the proof of some of your utter rubbish comments. You have no proof that trout are being bumped or hooked. I am yet to see a trout to my boat while pred fishing. I am sure it is very rare that they are taking 6"+ rubber lures bounced off the bottom in 30 - 40ft of feet of water.
As for Pitsford it is the ugly child of the AW reservoirs and your beef seems more to be with bank anglers and people catching trout on spoons and spinner.

You do sound like a spoilt little school boy! "Miss, miss, thats man is fishing where I always fish and he isn't doing it how I want him too. I don't want share." Your views will never be changed and you are just a bigot
 

JoeOh

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 29, 2020
Messages
309
I feel that although many long for the days of yore on the reservoirs, many concerns regarding predator fishing are leading us away from the fact that the dire stocking of Rutland, 14,000 more than Hanningfield, is the main problem. We may have some issues with the predator anglers but they are here now and we have to accommodate them. Yes annoyingly thethe boats are booked, but living locally, I am sure I can get a cancellation when needed. There are some aspects of predator fishing that I am uncomfortable with such a deadbating from the bank. Perhaps the use of single barbless hooks is the way. The protection of all fish should be paramount and I believe most serious predator anglers would adhere to that principle. I even though trout fishing, carry a recovery/weighing sling on the boat. And yes, my requirements for a boat diminish from October as the trout I pursue are generally inshore around the banks. I have no knowledge of the AWA accounting and maybe the winter income supplements wages rather than stocking. But again, the stocking level is too low for such a large water. 0.56 trout per acre for the year. Thats it.
A great fly caught predator tally there Rob, the best we've had to the boat is two twenties and a low double zander.
 

Jimstarr

New member
Joined
Aug 21, 2020
Messages
3
All I'm going to say on the subject is you don't want US on Your water because of issues you've had with some anglers. If we all categorised people within a certain disciplines based on the experience of a few then I'd think all fly anglers are ****'s based on the OP of this thread, but I bet they're not
 

Rob Edmunds

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Joined
May 8, 2008
Messages
3,659
Location
Midlands Reservoirs
I tried to explain in an adult manner.......they just don't want to admit the problems they cause, or that they have any effect on the water or the fly anglers.........

I'm not saying all Predator anglers are the problem.....but a large percentage are....this is based on my experience of fishing 2 or 3 times a week......Look I've seen it with my own eyes, I know the problems.....I'm also 100% honest in my assessment, you can't say the same can you ??

Yes I know the writing is on the wall as there are less fly anglers than ever, and Anglian Water will embrace this new income stream......does that make it right ???.

The 2 fisheries that spring to mind are Hanningfield and Llandegfedd , both have been utterly ruined by any method fishing....bivvies, bed chairs, beer, bbq, lager, fry ups , rubbish, radios.....

Anyway I'm finished with this thread, and guys, I've caught bigger and better Predators on the fly than you could ever dream of,....Pike 38lb, Zander 17lb and Perch to 4lb 12oz.....but our reservoirs operate in cycles and those fish are long gone on Rutland and Grafham.......Currently Ravensthope is easily your best bet for a big 30lb + Pike, and Pitsford for a big Perch......

That's the best advice you'll ever get but you won't take any notice, because you know it all.....

In 5 years, Rutland will be any method, and I won't bother...
 

Jimstarr

New member
Joined
Aug 21, 2020
Messages
3
Wow, you really do come across as a bitter little man, yes you've caught some lovely fish, but honestly you sound like a child, grow up..... You posted a report on rutland in July saying what great fishing it was, and you fish multiple times a week, I'm confused, I thought the fishing was rubbish? You can't have it both ways..... I too, like yourself speak how I see it, doesn't make you special. I think this weekend there were multiple 4lb perch out of Grafham and 30lb pike lost last year, so again bitter bull****! If it's so bad fishing why don't you **** off and fish somewhere else and leave us in peace to catch the preds?
 

Jimstarr

New member
Joined
Aug 21, 2020
Messages
3
And what you should really be doing is trying to get us predator anglers on side, we want to see as many trout in the waters as possible, granted for slightly different reasons, but the end game would be the same. The more people singing from the same hymn sheet the bettee. We all fish for the same reasons deep down, why not try and pull together and improve things?
 

grandad keith

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 15, 2013
Messages
162
So basically you are an eliteist on the reservoirs then as you don't want "us" there, because you don't want to share your water.

God forbid that someone be fishing an area productivly for zander, perch or pike when you want to be in there for Trout.

You flippant comment was about killing my prized and target fish yet it is ok for you to get a winge on because people are catching trout and killing them," just like you...yet I am ignorant!

I would love to know the proof of some of your utter rubbish comments. You have no proof that trout are being bumped or hooked. I am yet to see a trout to my boat while pred fishing. I am sure it is very rare that they are taking 6"+ rubber lures bounced off the bottom in 30 - 40ft of feet of water.
As for Pitsford it is the ugly child of the AW reservoirs and your beef seems more to be with bank anglers and people catching trout on spoons and spinner.

You do sound like a spoilt little school boy! "Miss, miss, thats man is fishing where I always fish and he isn't doing it how I want him too. I don't want share." Your views will never be changed and you are just a bigot
I was under the impression that I had joined a fly fishing forum,lately we seem to have had an influx of new members who don't seem to share that interest, have they joined just to ferment discontent, or just because they are bored during this present medical crisis ?
 
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