Sewage in our rivers....the water companies have to be stopped

tonymair

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Dec 26, 2010
Messages
245
PLEASE SIGN THIS PETITION -

The Panorama exposee of illegal practices by water companies, last night cannot be allowed to continue.
That raw sewage is discharged into our rivers is an unacceptable health hazard, and quite literally, is killing wildlife.
A campaign has begun to have this brought to the attention of Parliamentarians who may not be aware that the EA,
who are responsible for regulating the actions of the water companies, have failed miserably in this regard.
I think the pace of this campaign will increase, but please add your name to the petition to ensure that it does, and better,
send this link to contacts and friends of your own, who like most who watched the program, will be outraged, by how
water companies are killing our rivers.

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/582336
 

alan hine

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cambrigeshire
I saw the panorama program about this and all the officials said is " we take this very seriously " and nothing changes !!! they should be fined heavily and government officials should be sacked and replaced by people who do'nt just pay lip service .
 

BobP

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Wiltshire
Yes, sewage discharge to our rivers MUST be more forcefully regulated, so why not try this.

If any of you find a sewage outlet that is discharging untreated sewage to a watercourse report it on the EA's National Incident Recording System. I know, you all think nothing will happen about it, but what you must do is the give the person on the other end of the phone full details of where the incident is happening and that includes a National Grid Reference from an OS map. Make a note of the NGR because it will save you from looking it up over & over again. Go back as often as you can and every time raw sewage is being discharged OTHER than when it is permitted, ie in high flows in the river, phone in another report. Keep a note of the date/time you made the report. When you have a good list email your MP and say you have reported that xxx water company has illegally discharged raw sewage to the River aaa at bbb place on ccc occasions. Be sure you copy in the Chief Executive of the water company concerned. Notify the Chief Executive of the EA what you have done.

From personal experience in the EA I can vouch for the fact that EA management's brains disappear out of their rear orifices if MP's start asking awkward questions and demanding answers. The same will apply to the water company's managers.

There is absolutely no point in griping on here unless you are prepared to do something about the situation. You address your emails to the highest level possible in a reasoned manner. They have to respond within a given time frame. If they don't then you can always inform your local media that your right and proper concerns have been ignored. Again keep records of what you have done. Play them at their own game - they don't like it.
 

JCP

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Yes, sewage discharge to our rivers MUST be more forcefully regulated, so why not try this.

If any of you find a sewage outlet that is discharging untreated sewage to a watercourse report it on the EA's National Incident Recording System. I know, you all think nothing will happen about it, but what you must do is the give the person on the other end of the phone full details of where the incident is happening and that includes a National Grid Reference from an OS map. Make a note of the NGR because it will save you from looking it up over & over again. Go back as often as you can and every time raw sewage is being discharged OTHER than when it is permitted, ie in high flows in the river, phone in another report. Keep a note of the date/time you made the report. When you have a good list email your MP and say you have reported that xxx water company has illegally discharged raw sewage to the River aaa at bbb place on ccc occasions. Be sure you copy in the Chief Executive of the water company concerned. Notify the Chief Executive of the EA what you have done.

From personal experience in the EA I can vouch for the fact that EA management's brains disappear out of their rear orifices if MP's start asking awkward questions and demanding answers. The same will apply to the water company's managers.

There is absolutely no point in griping on here unless you are prepared to do something about the situation. You address your emails to the highest level possible in a reasoned manner. They have to respond within a given time frame. If they don't then you can always inform your local media that your right and proper concerns have been ignored. Again keep records of what you have done. Play them at their own game - they don't like it.
All fine and dandy Bob but thought Panorama revealed enough to get wheels moving somewhere in the chain.Covering the outlets on a personal level is not so easy for many of us even though we know it is happening.I am in Dorset and my take on it is the various plants are unable to cope with the population levels we have now.Once upon a time we had pipes out into the sea here and this was stopped but now it goes into the waterways to dilute before it goes to sea.You are right about the WA top brass they don't give a SH1T excuse the pun.There also needs to be a purge on households putting christ know what into the system.Same ilk I surmise who come to Dorset's ONB areas and leave all their crap behind literally.

JP
 

bonefishblues

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Messages
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Location
Near Bicester, Oxon
Yes, sewage discharge to our rivers MUST be more forcefully regulated, so why not try this.

If any of you find a sewage outlet that is discharging untreated sewage to a watercourse report it on the EA's National Incident Recording System. I know, you all think nothing will happen about it, but what you must do is the give the person on the other end of the phone full details of where the incident is happening and that includes a National Grid Reference from an OS map. Make a note of the NGR because it will save you from looking it up over & over again. Go back as often as you can and every time raw sewage is being discharged OTHER than when it is permitted, ie in high flows in the river, phone in another report. Keep a note of the date/time you made the report. When you have a good list email your MP and say you have reported that xxx water company has illegally discharged raw sewage to the River aaa at bbb place on ccc occasions. Be sure you copy in the Chief Executive of the water company concerned. Notify the Chief Executive of the EA what you have done.

From personal experience in the EA I can vouch for the fact that EA management's brains disappear out of their rear orifices if MP's start asking awkward questions and demanding answers. The same will apply to the water company's managers.

There is absolutely no point in griping on here unless you are prepared to do something about the situation. You address your emails to the highest level possible in a reasoned manner. They have to respond within a given time frame. If they don't then you can always inform your local media that your right and proper concerns have been ignored. Again keep records of what you have done. Play them at their own game - they don't like it.
This.

Anglers - ask yourselves when was the last time you reported something.

As Bob says, it's easy enough - they also take 'What 3 Words' grid references, so stick that on your 'phones to use whilst you are taking photos.
 

bonefishblues

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Meanwhile...

Only 14% of England’s rivers are achieving the Water Framework Directive’s “good ecological status”

Source?
The EA's 19-20 Annual Report.

[Whilst simultaneously patting themselves on the back because it had:

'...influenced partners to plant fields with cover crops to reduce the risk of nitrates affecting 36km of groundwater flow into rivers."

Thirty-six kilometres. A little over 22 miles. In a year.

We get what we deserve if we think a single programme will move the dial.

There are 3 million anglers. There are countless other water users whose knees should be on the throat (metaphorically, of course) of these lazy, complacent b*stards who are presiding over ecological disaster - but if we don't rouse ourselves, then why would they?

You'll gather it (and we) winds me up something chronic...
 

JCP

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Dorset Wilts Borders & Baja
Meanwhile...

Only 14% of England’s rivers are achieving the Water Framework Directive’s “good ecological status”

Source?
The EA's 19-20 Annual Report.

[Whilst simultaneously patting themselves on the back because it had:

'...influenced partners to plant fields with cover crops to reduce the risk of nitrates affecting 36km of groundwater flow into rivers."

Thirty-six kilometres. A little over 22 miles. In a year.

We get what we deserve if we think a single programme will move the dial.

There are 3 million anglers. There are countless other water users whose knees should be on the throat (metaphorically, of course) of these lazy, complacent b*stards who are presiding over ecological disaster - but if we don't rouse ourselves, then why would they?

You'll gather it (and we) winds me up something chronic...
Okay point taken.I am afraid my awareness was awakened by the Panorama coverage.I have consulted somone who is well versed on environmental issues.Our local MP has ''choclate fireguard'' syndrome. You may rest assured I will do what I can but I am afraid tramping around monitoring sewage relief outlets is a little beyong me these days and not because I would'nt do it either if I could.
 

bonefishblues

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Near Bicester, Oxon
Okay point taken.I am afraid my awareness was awakened by the Panorama coverage.I have consulted somone who is well versed on environmental issues.Our local MP has ''choclate fireguard'' syndrome. You may rest assured I will do what I can but I am afraid tramping around monitoring sewage relief outlets is a little beyong me these days and not because I would'nt do it either if I could.
We should all do what we can, that's all - if we do, things would get a lot better much more quickly. I was getting on my high horse and thence onto my soapbox, as you noted :ROFLMAO:
 

JCP

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Just made some preliminary enquiries and it is a minefield of misleading options and this is just for my local region.To be perfectly honest I had no idea it was such a sad story.I do know my local main rivers Avon and Stour have declined dramatically since I was young and I joined the gang and blamed pesticides not giving a thought to the sewage pollution I was really unaware of.I have contacted the Rivers Trust in the meantime to see where that leads.Too old in the tooth now for too much shenanigans but will lend support to the cause where I can.I had a big gap in my fishing life from late 70's through other comittments.I came back full on again some years later athough mainly chasing pelagics in far flung locations.Picked up the freshwater fly rod again in 2006 and by then much had changed on the local rivers and noticeably not for the better.
 

Reg Wyatt

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Just made some preliminary enquiries and it is a minefield of misleading options and this is just for my local region.To be perfectly honest I had no idea it was such a sad story.I do know my local main rivers Avon and Stour have declined dramatically since I was young and I joined the gang and blamed pesticides not giving a thought to the sewage pollution I was really unaware of.I have contacted the Rivers Trust in the meantime to see where that leads.Too old in the tooth now for too much shenanigans but will lend support to the cause where I can.I had a big gap in my fishing life from late 70's through other comittments.I came back full on again some years later athough mainly chasing pelagics in far flung locations.Picked up the freshwater fly rod again in 2006 and by then much had changed on the local rivers and noticeably not for the better.
Speak to the river keepers that we both now JCP and you'll be given further horrendous stories of the lack lustre response from those in charge. The keeper at Nursling ten years ago had a dossier of over one hundred reports to the EA of pollution. The EA visited the site for the first three times and then just noted it onto their league table of reports. He contacted MP's and had the story published in the local press after taking countless videos and photos. Nothing, absolutely nothing was done. However, that particular keeper has now moved on but he would say to keep going, keep reporting and don't let anybody put you off - a war of attrition.

Reg Wyatt
 

shropshire_lad

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Too far away from the wild places!
Just made some preliminary enquiries and it is a minefield of misleading options and this is just for my local region.To be perfectly honest I had no idea it was such a sad story.I do know my local main rivers Avon and Stour have declined dramatically since I was young and I joined the gang and blamed pesticides not giving a thought to the sewage pollution I was really unaware of.I have contacted the Rivers Trust in the meantime to see where that leads.Too old in the tooth now for too much shenanigans but will lend support to the cause where I can.I had a big gap in my fishing life from late 70's through other comittments.I came back full on again some years later athough mainly chasing pelagics in far flung locations.Picked up the freshwater fly rod again in 2006 and by then much had changed on the local rivers and noticeably not for the better.
That's where I'm starting, with The Rivers Trust. Going to offer my services. Just so much other stuff going on and it's finding the time to even start the ball rolling!
 

morayfisher

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This will be the fifth time I’ve posted my little rant below related to this subject in different threads and not a single person has bothered to comment. Maybe the idea is just too far out there to consider.
.
.
.
.
We can’t seem to see beyond flushing drinking water down the toilet in this country.
At least some of this is abstracted from rivers which we have just polluted with raw sewage. We then filter and treat it back to drinking quality before flushing it back down the toilet with our waste to overspill the treatment plant again. So if no new houses are built and we have no population growth, we still need massive investment in water treatment to stop the existing pollution. But with ever more new homes and more people what we actually need is a vast amount of money put into creating a lot of overcapacity to cope with ever increasing amounts of sh1t. And that’s another thing we don’t do well, investing for future generations because we are more interested in making money for today’s investors.

Or

Put legislation in place for Incinerator toilets to be fitted in all new builds and require their installation in refurbishments.
The technology is already there. They use zero water. There is no connection to a sewer. You could build a thousand houses, put three thousand people in them with no sewerage reaching the treatment plant because they are not even connected. The only waste is small amounts of sterile ash which can go on the garden or in the bin.
With high volume production, the unit cost of these toilets would fall and they could be further subsidised by the water companies as demands on their plants would actually reduce as these things replace our current toilets. Less waste to deal with and less water going down the pan. No need to spend vast sums to future proof the system as the problem simply wouldn’t be there.
 

shropshire_lad

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Messages
3,086
Location
Too far away from the wild places!
This will be the fifth time I’ve posted my little rant below related to this subject in different threads and not a single person has bothered to comment. Maybe the idea is just too far out there to consider.
.
.
.
.
We can’t seem to see beyond flushing drinking water down the toilet in this country.
At least some of this is abstracted from rivers which we have just polluted with raw sewage. We then filter and treat it back to drinking quality before flushing it back down the toilet with our waste to overspill the treatment plant again. So if no new houses are built and we have no population growth, we still need massive investment in water treatment to stop the existing pollution. But with ever more new homes and more people what we actually need is a vast amount of money put into creating a lot of overcapacity to cope with ever increasing amounts of sh1t. And that’s another thing we don’t do well, investing for future generations because we are more interested in making money for today’s investors.

Or

Put legislation in place for Incinerator toilets to be fitted in all new builds and require their installation in refurbishments.
The technology is already there. They use zero water. There is no connection to a sewer. You could build a thousand houses, put three thousand people in them with no sewerage reaching the treatment plant because they are not even connected. The only waste is small amounts of sterile ash which can go on the garden or in the bin.
With high volume production, the unit cost of these toilets would fall and they could be further subsidised by the water companies as demands on their plants would actually reduce as these things replace our current toilets. Less waste to deal with and less water going down the pan. No need to spend vast sums to future proof the system as the problem simply wouldn’t be there.
Well, I will comment this time. I had not seen the previous posts. What we need is "far out there" ideas. We need to think outside the box (y)

Firstly, "making money for today's investors". You hit the nail on the head. Privatisation and the focus on profits has been a disaster IMO. When did you last see a headline about water company management "thin cats" :ROFLMAO:

Incinerator toilets? Don't know much about them but you may generate air quality issues. Why not compost toilets? Sh1t is a resource if used properly. Urine is pretty innocuous if managed properly. I agree we waste potable water. We (the public) can do more but that does not exempt the water companies from putting their houses in order.
 

morayfisher

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Well, I will comment this time. I had not seen the previous posts. What we need is "far out there" ideas. We need to think outside the box (y)

Firstly, "making money for today's investors". You hit the nail on the head. Privatisation and the focus on profits has been a disaster IMO. When did you last see a headline about water company management "thin cats" :ROFLMAO:

Incinerator toilets? Don't know much about them but you may generate air quality issues. Why not compost toilets? Sh1t is a resource if used properly. Urine is pretty innocuous if managed properly. I agree we waste potable water. We (the public) can do more but that does not exempt the water companies from putting their houses in order.
Firstly, thanks for replying. I was beginning to think that every time I mentioned incinerator toilets that it killed the conversation!
I know very little about composting toilets and not too much about the incinerator ones but I doubt any one solution will suit all types of properties and getting people thinking about a way forward is the main thing.
I think the waste of drinking quality water is a big problem. We call it “drinking water” but every person must flush vastly more of it away than they actually drink.
Maybe the water companies could get on top of the problem with sufficient money and the will/legislation/threat of prosecution to do it. Could they do it whilst paying out dividends at the same time? I don’t know.
But if we don’t change the system then with population growth it just means ever more capacity will be required to waste more water until the end of time.
So if, one way or another, we could avoid sending our waste down sewers the problem could disappear and we would only need to treat enough water to drinking quality for our actual drinking needs. Two massive savings on a national scale and those savings could help to fund the “out there” alternatives.
 

BobP

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Messages
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Wiltshire
JCP, I am not suggesting you or anyone else goes tramping the countryside looking for discharges, but if you see one where you fish report it. Next time you are there and it's doing it again, report it and report it every time you go there. When you have a nice list and have had no response from the EA which THEY ARE REQUIRED TO UNDER NIRS, then you move to next level.

I promise you, nothing causes more of a stomach upset in senior management than a few pointed questions from an MP. Chickens minus head.

The alternative, of course, is that we do nothing and it is the wild swimmers and canoeists who kick up the fuss and anglers are left on the sidelines. Government than assumes that seeing as we aren't too bothered we can safely be ignored. Anyone want that?
 
Last edited:

ed_t

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Joined
Dec 21, 2014
Messages
5,682
This will be the fifth time I’ve posted my little rant below related to this subject in different threads and not a single person has bothered to comment. Maybe the idea is just too far out there to consider.
.
.
.
.
We can’t seem to see beyond flushing drinking water down the toilet in this country.
At least some of this is abstracted from rivers which we have just polluted with raw sewage. We then filter and treat it back to drinking quality before flushing it back down the toilet with our waste to overspill the treatment plant again. So if no new houses are built and we have no population growth, we still need massive investment in water treatment to stop the existing pollution. But with ever more new homes and more people what we actually need is a vast amount of money put into creating a lot of overcapacity to cope with ever increasing amounts of sh1t. And that’s another thing we don’t do well, investing for future generations because we are more interested in making money for today’s investors.

Or

Put legislation in place for Incinerator toilets to be fitted in all new builds and require their installation in refurbishments.
The technology is already there. They use zero water. There is no connection to a sewer. You could build a thousand houses, put three thousand people in them with no sewerage reaching the treatment plant because they are not even connected. The only waste is small amounts of sterile ash which can go on the garden or in the bin.
With high volume production, the unit cost of these toilets would fall and they could be further subsidised by the water companies as demands on their plants would actually reduce as these things replace our current toilets. Less waste to deal with and less water going down the pan. No need to spend vast sums to future proof the system as the problem simply wouldn’t be there.
Domestic scale soil waste incineration will lead to increased particulate emissions to air, so not acceptable. Improving bio-digestion capacity to handle and reform the waste is more sensible.
 

shropshire_lad

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Joined
May 31, 2017
Messages
3,086
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Too far away from the wild places!
Firstly, thanks for replying. I was beginning to think that every time I mentioned incinerator toilets that it killed the conversation!
I know very little about composting toilets and not too much about the incinerator ones but I doubt any one solution will suit all types of properties and getting people thinking about a way forward is the main thing.
I think the waste of drinking quality water is a big problem. We call it “drinking water” but every person must flush vastly more of it away than they actually drink.
Maybe the water companies could get on top of the problem with sufficient money and the will/legislation/threat of prosecution to do it. Could they do it whilst paying out dividends at the same time? I don’t know.
But if we don’t change the system then with population growth it just means ever more capacity will be required to waste more water until the end of time.
So if, one way or another, we could avoid sending our waste down sewers the problem could disappear and we would only need to treat enough water to drinking quality for our actual drinking needs. Two massive savings on a national scale and those savings could help to fund the “out there” alternatives.
Where there's a will there's a way. I actually wrote a blog article a while back about this very issue, the waste of high quality water.

The water companies will always come out with "too difficult" and we should not forget anything that means less water is used impacts on their revenue.

If enough people get behind these initiatives things could change. I firmly believe they will change at some point but it will be a case of shutting the stable door after the horse has bolted.
 
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