sinking the tippet with pva?

Cap'n Fishy

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Toluene is fine if you don't squirt it up your nose or drink it. Someone previously mentioned becoming 'drunk' with fumes from a leaking bottle in the car, but a broken bottle of whisky would have had the same effect in an enclosed space. Been using toluene for 50 years with no ill effects and the safety datasheet says it's OK. That said, if the silicone oil dissolves in isopropyl alcohol, that may be better but, even though it has a lower boiling point, it would probably take longer to dry.

I was experimenting with making a Permaflote type floatant for dapping flies (which need to be as dry as possible, so greasy floatants like Gink are not so good on them). I was dissolving things like paraffin wax in hexane. That dried really quickly, but had to be stored in a mini-Kilner bottle with a clamp-down stopper. And I had to make my own stopper liners from about the one rubber I found that was compatible with hexane. The silicone stopper seals that came with the Kilner bottles melted in the hexane. Doh! 🤭
 

easker1

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It's like a chemistry lesson here, I wipe my leaders with a smidgeon of washing up liquid and bobs yer aunty, it must be the water in our highland lochs, :whistle: easker1
 

suzzy buzzer

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If you want to sink the tippet put a No 10 stotz on the line 6ins behind the fly, (it's like a square split shot but they stay on the line better). It'll weigh less than a decent sized hook and will sink the first 18ins quickly and the fly will hold it up. It's called back shotting and is what match anglers do when fishing small pole floats to sink the line out of the wind and stop it pulling the float out of position, which is exactly what you are trying to achieve with a fly.

I think the idea is sound, but I think you’d struggle to get a #10 stotz of the typical thickness of tippet you’d find in a stillwater setup. I could be wrong though, it’s a long time since I used them.
A knot with a little tungsten putty over it might be easier to achieve.
 

kingf000

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I think the idea is sound, but I think you’d struggle to get a #10 stotz of the typical thickness of tippet you’d find in a stillwater setup. I could be wrong though, it’s a long time since I used them.
A knot with a little tungsten putty over it might be easier to achieve.
I've tried size 8 shot but generally found the tippet was too thick for it to stay on. I've tried tungsten putty over a knot but getting the weight balance right can be tricky and find it can make an extra splash in front of the fly.
 

dave b

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Size 10 stotz with be fine however a better option would be Guru micro cubed shot which will be fine for tippet from 0.10 to 0.20 dia which is about 8lb low dia.
 

Cap'n Fishy

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To be honest, I've no interest in trying to add anything or cake anything onto my leader. It's fine the way it is. I can get it under with good 'leader management' using my home-made mix of leadersink + wetting agent. It does wash off, as anything hydrophilic will. I just keep an eye out for 'the floaties' and degrease when I see them. And that strategy works well enough for me to catch fish. (y)

Col
 

kingf000

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To be honest, I've no interest in trying to add anything or cake anything onto my leader. It's fine the way it is. I can get it under with good 'leader management' using my home-made mix of leadersink + wetting agent. It does wash off, as anything hydrophilic will. I just keep an eye out for 'the floaties' and degrease when I see them. And that strategy works well enough for me to catch fish. (y)

Col
I suppose some people just like to experiment, others are happy with what they've got. I like to experiment, part of my enjoyment of fishing. So for a fly floatant: I've pre-coated a fly with rain x. Took a little while to dry but I'll see how it goes. It would probably dry quicker with false casting. I've made up some petroleum jelly diluted with a bit of toluene so that it runs, about the same consistency as warm Gink, so I'll take that with me and see how well that works (I've read that Gink is a silicone gel based floatant, but the density of it is more like petroleum jelly than silicone gel). I'll also try silicone oil diluted with toluene or IPA (~ 1 : 3). For a sinkant I added some fullers earth to PVA but it just went solid too quickly when I put it on the line (maybe too much fullers earth?), so I've diluted some PVA with water so I can produce a thin, clear coating and pre-coated my tippet. PVA is more dense than water so that should help as well as it being hydrophilic. Again I'll see how it goes. I'll take it with me so that I can re-coat the tippet when necessary.
 

glueman

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Toluene is fine if you don't squirt it up your nose or drink it. Someone previously mentioned becoming 'drunk' with fumes from a leaking bottle in the car, but a broken bottle of whisky would have had the same effect in an enclosed space. Been using toluene for 50 years with no ill effects and the safety datasheet says it's OK. That said, if the silicone oil dissolves in isopropyl alcohol, that may be better but, even though it has a lower boiling point, it would probably take longer to dry.
That was me who said that but it was not a bottle it was a 5 gallon can of the stuff. Actually it doesn't actually make you drunk it makes you very sleepy and if the exposure is long enough knock you out. It is dangerous stuff I had customers whoes operatives instead of spending their float would tip it in the petrol tank of their vans. Engines did not last long. If you smoke take care
 

glueman

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To be honest, I've no interest in trying to add anything or cake anything onto my leader. It's fine the way it is. I can get it under with good 'leader management' using my home-made mix of leadersink + wetting agent. It does wash off, as anything hydrophilic will. I just keep an eye out for 'the floaties' and degrease when I see them. And that strategy works well enough for me to catch fish. (y)

Col
I just buy Drennan sub surface works fine for me
 

kingf000

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That was me who said that but it was not a bottle it was a 5 gallon can of the stuff. Actually it doesn't actually make you drunk it makes you very sleepy and if the exposure is long enough knock you out. It is dangerous stuff I had customers whoes operatives instead of spending their float would tip it in the petrol tank of their vans. Engines did not last long. If you smoke take care
As with many everyday items, if you get a high enough concentration in a confined space then you get problems. Hypochlorite in bleach is far more dangerous, as a spillage in a confined area would kill you pretty quickly, yet loads of people use it in their house as a disinfectant and spray it onto walls to kill mould. A leaking 5 gall. can of petrol or paraffin in the back of the car would knock you out just like the toluene would. Using 10 mL of toluene in a well ventillated area is not dangerous.
 

glueman

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Using 10 mL of toluene in a well ventillated area is not dangerous. as long as you do not smoke it has a lower flash point than petrol and is highly inflamable
 

Cap'n Fishy

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As with many everyday items, if you get a high enough concentration in a confined space then you get problems. Hypochlorite in bleach is far more dangerous, as a spillage in a confined area would kill you pretty quickly, yet loads of people use it in their house as a disinfectant and spray it onto walls to kill mould. A leaking 5 gall. can of petrol or paraffin in the back of the car would knock you out just like the toluene would. Using 10 mL of toluene in a well ventillated area is not dangerous.

When I said I was wary of exposing myself to toluene, I wasn't so worried about low level fumes as its potential carcinogenicity. I don't think anything has been proven, but it is aka methyl benzene, and benzene is a known human carcinogen. You may even get benzene impurities in industrial grade toluene?

Col
 

Cap'n Fishy

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I do not know the answer to that but it works for me and that is what counts just like all the concoctions that have been suggested here work for the chemist making them

For sure - we are all using what works of us. Interesting comparing notes, though.

I bought a spool of coarse angling stuff that made a bold claim to be a fast-sinking nylon. I tested it... exactly the same sink rate as all other nylons! Duped again! Doh!

Col
 

kingf000

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Using 10 mL of toluene in a well ventillated area is not dangerous. as long as you do not smoke it has a lower flash point than petrol and is highly inflamable
I agree with you, like many inflammble solvents you wouldn't smoke when using it, unless you are an *****. Petrol has a flash point of -45oF, toluene, 40oF, diesel, 125oF, so did you mean diesel? Toluene is used in many products, paints, paint thinners, nail varnish removers, adhesives etc. so can't be that dangerous otherwise it wouldn't be allowed.
 

lhomme

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I've been always very wary about using any chemical product on anything that comes into contact with water. Being a lifelong ecologist I contented myself with river mud and my own spit to break the surface tension with thin tippets. It usually worked well for me and I didn't bother about the continuous repeating. The trouble it takes eased my conscience and didn't compromise my respect for water and everything living in or of it. May sound far fetched, but all the manmade alternatives definitely were from my point of view. Each to their own of course.
 

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