sinking the tippet with pva?

Cap'n Fishy

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not benzene itself that is carcinogenic, but one of its many metabolites, or reactive metabolic intermediates.

That is probably the case for most carcinogens. We attach the label to the starting chemical, though. Without it, no carcinogen...
 

caeran

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Blimey!
Having spent a large chunk of my life in the fire service and although I am not a chemist the mention of any of the chemicals mentioned on this thread would have seen me reaching for a BA set and a chemical suit.
And you want to handle them and put them into a river ?

I thought fishing was about swapping yarns about the “ one that got away” or about flies
But swapping chemical formulas

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4wings

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Trouble with washing up liquid are the dyes and fragrances, chemicals that could cause problems - at least photographically.
I may be wrong but Polysorbate(?), the stuff used in cosmetics might do it. It’s not expensive.
I did say similar :)
 

kingf000

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Blimey!
Having spent a large chunk of my life in the fire service and although I am not a chemist the mention of any of the chemicals mentioned on this thread would have seen me reaching for a BA set and a chemical suit.
And you want to handle them and put them into a river ?


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As someone who works in the fire service you are probably used to dealing with these things in bulk quantities. I'm a PhD chemist with over 40 years experience in the fine chemical industry and was using stuff like this, and far more toxic materials, almost every day until I retired. I had a legal requirement to assess the safety of these materials and to ensure safe disposal, not just for me, but for the 100 chemists working for me. I'm talking about adding a few drops of toluene, a natural product that is present in pine oil, to vaseline or silicone oil, neither of which is harmful. What little toluene there is will have evaporated long before it ever reaches the river. As for everything else, if you use any commercially available floatant, you will be using this kind of stuff already, if not toluene then mineral oil, its just you don't know as the ingredients aren't listed. For sinking the tippet, the mud you buy or make up yourself, will include all the surfactants you get in washing up liquid, that harms the environment far more than PVA ever would.
 

caeran

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And when it all went wrong who did you call?
Lol


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ed_t

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Yes, but the use of parafin wax put me off. Doesn't seem to be necessary when you've got vaseline as it is pretty much the same thing, just higher melting. Just vaseline and mineral oil should be enough.
The petroleum jelly and mineral oil will be creating a fluid matrix for the wax, which will be doing the most important task.

I'd suggest nanoparticulation of the wax would be most effective in a non reactive suspension so a dry nano wax particle in water would be good.

People around the world are spreading similar stuff on bread every day; the process just needs modifying to replace the fats with waxes.
 

kingf000

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well does it sink , or not? easker1

Kind off! I used the school PVA adhesive and spread it on the tippet yesterday and let it dry. It worked well for about 15 mins, by which time the tippet had been dragged through weed a couple of times, presumably stripping off the coating. When I reapplied the PVA glue it didn't work, probably because it didn't dry out enough - could be a problem with the water based adhesive. So I'll still use the school glue to pre-treat the tippet but I'm hoping to dissolve some PVA film in isopropanol to take with me, which should dry much quicker.
 

easker1

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you can get a waterproof PVA used in the Building trades also The pva has similarities to a waterproofing product that can be bought in the Outdoor shops, easker1
 

kingf000

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The petroleum jelly and mineral oil will be creating a fluid matrix for the wax, which will be doing the most important task.

I'd suggest nanoparticulation of the wax would be most effective in a non reactive suspension so a dry nano wax particle in water would be good.

People around the world are spreading similar stuff on bread every day; the process just needs modifying to replace the fats with waxes.
Not sure whether wax could be made into a nanoparticle as it isn't crystalline. However, some sort of emulsion of wax or silicon oil in water may work well, and you probably wouldn't get that oily slick that you get with Gink. One could envisage heating the wax and water together until the wax melts, add an emusifier and whisk it with cooling?
 

ed_t

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Not sure whether wax could be made into a nanoparticle as it isn't crystalline. However, some sort of emulsion of wax or silicon oil in water may work well, and you probably wouldn't get that oily slick that you get with Gink. One could envisage heating the wax and water together until the wax melts, add an emusifier and whisk it with cooling?
Heat and melt the wax at low pressure with stirring to keep homogeneity. Pump the low pressure stuff into a high pressure pump inlet. Boost the pressure above the critical pressure of your carrier fluid.

Carrier fluid pump to super critical pressure, sub critical temperature.

Blend the 2 liquids in a mixer then heat above supercritical temperature for the carrier.

Flash the mixture through nozzles to a temperature below the freezing/crystalisation temperature of the wax. Nanoparticle crystals will be formed.

The isenthalpic flash evaporation of the carrier promotes nanoparticle crystal formation of the wax, which if done right results in a very dry powder. This can be mixed in simple solutes like water to create an emulsion equivalent that is more temperature and pressure stable.

Ski waxes processed similarly are stupid expensive, but 100's of millions of people spread water/crystal suspensions on bread every day that are formed the same way.
 

caeran

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I just use a bit of marg off me butty
Saves cluttering up the river bank with all that chemical apparatus


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caeran

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Me too , I can’t believe it’s not butter


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kingf000

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Heat and melt the wax at low pressure with stirring to keep homogeneity. Pump the low pressure stuff into a high pressure pump inlet. Boost the pressure above the critical pressure of your carrier fluid.

Carrier fluid pump to super critical pressure, sub critical temperature.

Blend the 2 liquids in a mixer then heat above supercritical temperature for the carrier.

Flash the mixture through nozzles to a temperature below the freezing/crystalisation temperature of the wax. Nanoparticle crystals will be formed.

The isenthalpic flash evaporation of the carrier promotes nanoparticle crystal formation of the wax, which if done right results in a very dry powder. This can be mixed in simple solutes like water to create an emulsion equivalent that is more temperature and pressure stable.

Ski waxes processed similarly are stupid expensive, but 100's of millions of people spread water/crystal suspensions on bread every day that are formed the same way.
Not the sort of thing I can do at home!
 

easker1

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with the chemical processes on here I'm surprised you get fishing, I carry a small tube of Fairy liquid , a smear on my finger is enough to wipe on my cast, the amount used would not create a problem, after I do this once I have no other problems of floating , I use an Inter line all the time, easker1
 

kingf000

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with the chemical processes on here I'm surprised you get fishing, I carry a small tube of Fairy liquid , a smear on my finger is enough to wipe on my cast, the amount used would not create a problem, after I do this once I have no other problems of floating , I use an Inter line all the time, easker1
I suspect the water in the highlands is purer and has less surface slick than the lowland waters here in Cambridgeshire? By the time I fish it, the river has run parallel to about 10 miles of motorway. I think I'll try going back to including a tippet ring in front of the fly. I tried a micro ring with 0.14mm tippet but maybe a slightly larger ring with the 0.12mm tippet might work?
 

Cap'n Fishy

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I suspect the water in the highlands is purer and has less surface slick than the lowland waters here in Cambridgeshire?

I suspect it's because Derek is puling wets on an intermediate line, and we are trying to fish a static dry on a floating line. 😜
 
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