sinking the tippet with pva?

ed_t

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 21, 2014
Messages
4,661
Has anyone tried copperslip? Swishing an insulator around in charged air could explain some atmospheric phenomena?

Also pondering powdering some rust to mix with fullers earth to add a bit of electro chemical activity.
 

Cap'n Fishy

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 29, 2008
Messages
25,293
Location
Embra
Twice in my life, I have experienced the phenomenon of nylon leader floating above the water, due to static electricity. Both times there were "atmospherics" involved. Once was at Chew, when there was 'thunder and lightning' about. The other was at the Lake of Menteith, around the time of a heavy shower of large hailstones. We would cast out, and the fly line would land on the water, but the leader would hover a foot or so above the water for a few seconds, before lowering itself onto the water. Quite a spectacle to behold!

Col
 

easker1

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 10, 2010
Messages
6,734
Location
Highlands
Yes Col , but why is he trying to sink( Ah! I get it now sinking the cast and keep the fly up , My Bad)
just couldn't understand the Chemistry, easker1
 

ed_t

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 21, 2014
Messages
4,661
That floating above the water will be the extreme, but i suspect static charge will build up even in relatively benign conditions.

If you fill a kilner jar with rice out a plastic packet the last grains dance, stick and float in the bag.

Pumping low conductivity stuff through plastic hoses is another way to build up huge static charge.

Stroking a cat on a bone dry day is also exemplar: stroke, stroke, stroke, touch its nose, zap.
 

kingf000

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 13, 2016
Messages
1,028
Thinking back to years ago, dry flies had an up-turned eye. Was that to keep the last couple of inches of tippet off the water?
 

speytime

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 27, 2009
Messages
6,404
Location
West Lothian Scotland
Speaking of static shocks, if i wear Wellingtons on the boat during certain weather I get zapped all frigging day long?

Presumably I'm isolated and the static charge gets to build to the point its bl00dy annoying when discharging, i never ever wore them again.
 

ed_t

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 21, 2014
Messages
4,661
Experiment with copperslip was interesting. Bulk paste density 1.15 but a thin smear and test nylon didn't want to sink. Needed a fair bit of persuasion but sank slightly faster than nylon once through the surface.

Got bored, went and did something more useful and 1/2 an hour later specimin was back on the surface.

Failed experiment for sinking the leader. Interesting possibilities for floating line and leader.
 

kingf000

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 13, 2016
Messages
1,028
Copper slip is "Copper grease is a specially formulated anti-seize compound manufactured by combining fine copper particles and high grade corrosion and oxidation inhibitors. The grease is created through a procedure that combines oil with soap." So contains a lot of oil. The soap will either wash away, or react with calcium in the water to deposit the scum on your line that you get round the bath if you live in a hard water area.

My experiments: I got polyvinyl alcohol (PVOH) to dissolve in water but adding IPA or acetone precipitated it. So still need an alternative to water. Don't fancy methanol as it makes you blind! I also tried dissolving solid polyvinyl acetate in toluene. After 4 days it was still stuck on the bottom! So again still looking for a more volatile slovent than water. I've gone back to making the PVA/Fullers earth paste, but now added a little glycerol to stop it from solidifying so quickly. Next time I'm out I'll compare it with the usual detergent/fullers earth/glycerol mud.
 

ed_t

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 21, 2014
Messages
4,661
Copper slip is "Copper grease is a specially formulated anti-seize compound manufactured by combining fine copper particles and high grade corrosion and oxidation inhibitors. The grease is created through a procedure that combines oil with soap." So contains a lot of oil. The soap will either wash away, or react with calcium in the water to deposit the scum on your line that you get round the bath if you live in a hard water area.

My experiments: I got polyvinyl alcohol (PVOH) to dissolve in water but adding IPA or acetone precipitated it. So still need an alternative to water. Don't fancy methanol as it makes you blind! I also tried dissolving solid polyvinyl acetate in toluene. After 4 days it was still stuck on the bottom! So again still looking for a more volatile slovent than water. I've gone back to making the PVA/Fullers earth paste, but now added a little glycerol to stop it from solidifying so quickly. Next time I'm out I'll compare it with the usual detergent/fullers earth/glycerol mud.
Yes. I've worked at a few world scale ammonia plants so know what copperslip contains and why alternatives are required.

I come back to surface electrochemistry. You might (probably) need a surface activation to allow bonding of the intended molecules to the leader and that probably needs a nasty activating solvent.
 

kingf000

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 13, 2016
Messages
1,028
Problem solved! I had trouble sinking my tippet so that it didn't pull the fly under. At least with fluorocarbon tippet I seemed to have solved the problem. Up to now I've been using either just knots or a very small micro ring. However, I've now been using the slightly larger small tippet ring. It seems that little extra weight, or maybe the larger diameter that maybe doesn't trap air, lets the tippet sink without pulling the fly under!
 

Paul_B

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 14, 2008
Messages
3,012
Location
West Riding of Yorkshire
As I've said before I prefer to fish with one fly and with fluorocarbon leader and tippet, if there's no ripple I'll use a little buzzer on a dropper, this sinks the line while allowing the fly to float.
 

kingf000

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 13, 2016
Messages
1,028
As I've said before I prefer to fish with one fly and with fluorocarbon leader and tippet, if there's no ripple I'll use a little buzzer on a dropper, this sinks the line while allowing the fly to float.
OK, that is what I often do, though it may be a small PTN, but if the club rules say one fly only?
 
Top