Stockies v residents

[chilli pepper]

While fishing a local Stillwater yesterday an angler randamley said he preferred catching residents over so called "stockies"
In my opinion a stocked trout is a stocked trout
I fully take on board the term "over wintered fish"
My question is this when does a so called stockie become a so called resident ?
I only talking stocked still waters

 

[bibio1st]

Probably that Lee, hopefully in a water with a good food source so the fish can grow on, on waters without, over wintered fish can be wasting away.
The chap may have been meaning more of a challenge also.

Going off subject the spiderwire line you use, what strengths do you use? I currently use 6, 8, and 10lb in fulling mill.

Steve

 

[bill1]

How about when the fish has switched on to naturals, does not automatically chase any lure whipped across it's face, requires a natural imitation to be presented in a reasonably lifelike manner, shies away from line splash and moves quietly out of the way when a fisherman appears in it's window.

It will be interesting to see if this thread can continue without reference to "pellet pigs", "bewildered farm animals" and "stockie bashing"

 

[chilli pepper]

Probably that Lee, hopefully in a water with a good food source so the fish can grow on, on waters without, over wintered fish can be wasting away.
The chap may have been meaning more of a challenge also.

Going off subject the spiderwire line you use, what strengths do you use? I currently use 6, 8, and 10lb in fulling mill.

Steve

I use 8lb for every thing even dries I was fishing two size 16 shipmans or beetles all season with no issues. At £6 for 200yd spool I don't think you can go wrong steve. I get the occasional snap off but I put it down to bad angling standing on my leader getting it caught in trees ect ect

 

[bibio1st]

I'll look out for it, cheers:thumbs:

Steve

 

[luke troutstalker]

"While fishing a local Stillwater yesterday an angler randamley said he preferred catching residents over so called "stockies"

If he'd have said 'fresh' stockies that might have made a bit more sense.

Bill's explanation of the difference makes sense to me. I wonder though, how do they learn that buzzers and flies are edible?

 

[taterdu]

.... an angler randamley said he preferred catching residents over so called "stockies"

I had a similar conversation with a somewhat pompous character. He seemed a little perplexed when I told him I much preferred catching fish that were on holiday.

 

[blackmorec]

Personally I believe its more a statistical and shoaling thing.....

When a bunch of stockies go into a water they come from holding tanks where they've been in a tightly packed shoal for months or years and competed heavily for food. When food appears in a holding tank the first to act gets it. Don't act instantly and you don't eat.

When stockies go into a still water, they are likely to continue their stock tank behaviour, i.e. remain in shoals and continue with the competitive feeding..... eat now, think later.

Once stockies have been in the water for a while....they become so-called residents. What does that mean?. Well first it means that their numbers have been dramatically thinned by anglers, so they are 'apparently' harder to catch. Second the shoal has become 'diluted' by the size of the water as they spread out looking for food. Third they've maybe been pricked a time or three so become a lot more cautious in what they grab and 4, because they are more solitary, they don't have to be lightening fast in taking food. All in all then there are fewer fish, more spread out, that have learned to become cautious and can afford to be so as they no longer have to compete for food.

In summary, you could directly translate 'I prefer catching resident fish to stockies' to either 'I prefer fishing poorly stocked waters' or 'I prefer catching fewer fish' since the only difference between catching fresh stockies and longer term residents is, generally speaking the number of fish you catch. That's probably not exactly what he meant. More likely, 'I prefer my fishing to be a bit of a challenge'

Personally I like both....reasonable challenges, interspersed with 'fish every second cast' stockie bashing days:thumbs:

 

[wobbly face]

If he wants resident fish, then he needs to go in pursuit of wild brown trout.
As to Bill's reply, that's when the stockies become educated.
The term "resident" and rainbow trout (or derivatives of) don't go together, well not in still waters and only the odd river have naturally breading rainbows in this country. Rainbows are already several years old when stocked, and they don't have a long life span. Be lucky to get 12 months out of them.
Browns on the other hand live into their teens.

 

[bill1]

If he wants resident fish, then he needs to go in pursuit of wild brown trout.
As to Bill's reply, that's when the stockies become educated.
The term "resident" and rainbow trout (or derivatives of) don't go together, well not in still waters and only the odd river have naturally breading rainbows in this country. Rainbows are already several years old when stocked, and they don't have a long life span. Be lucky to get 12 months out of them.
Browns on the other hand live into their teens.

Expand a bit on the 12 months bit, Ged.

 

[sewinbasher]

Of course all rainbows are stockies but what I think the guy meant by "resident" are trout that have been in the water long enough to have to start to feed and thus need something more like a food imitation to catch them.

I was told by a small stillwater fishery owner that about 90% of stocked fish don't make to the end of their first week and never have to feed on natural food, this stacks up as many could not support the biomass of trout in them.

So a "resident" will be a fish that is surviving by eating and may have been in the pool for between a couple of weeks and a couple of years. Fisheries don't like too many residents as they get harder to catch and a good proportion of punters rate a fishery by how many they can catch and of course this relies on there being plenty of more gullible freshly stocked fish to keep them happy and stop them going elsewhere.

I was involved with running a syndicate on a 2 acre pool that financially couldn't afford continual stocking so we made the fishery 100% C&R for the first season and very limited taking and stocking of fish thereafter so the vast majority of fish were resident. The syndicate collapsed after four years or so as the majority of members found the fish too difficult and went off looking for easier quarry. Some failed to catch any fish at all and of 12 members only 3 were able to catch fish on a consistent basis (average 3ish fish per session) and this required mostly Size 14-18 flies and 5x or 6x tippets.

 

[chilli pepper]

"While fishing a local Stillwater yesterday an angler randamley said he preferred catching residents over so called "stockies"

If he'd have said 'fresh' stockies that might have made a bit more sense.

Bill's explanation of the difference makes sense to me. I wonder though, how do they learn that buzzers and flies are edible?

Probably luke the same way they find out lures and other fishing flies are not edible. Trial and error. In my opinion their is no resident fish in sharpley springs or the majority of the north east still waters due to the high turnover of kill tickets. At £19 for a 3 fish ticket it's not often you see blanks recorded in the kept fish log.

 

[wobbly face]

Expand a bit on the 12 months bit, Ged.

Rainbows apparently only have about 3 to 4 year life span. When stocked at 2lb mark, they have already lived at least half that life span.

Before rainbows are stocked, they are starved for a few days prior to transportation. This helps to reduce death in transit. It also makes them hungry when stocked.

 

[chilli pepper]

If he wants resident fish, then he needs to go in pursuit of wild brown trout.
As to Bill's reply, that's when the stockies become educated.
The term "resident" and rainbow trout (or derivatives of) don't go together, well not in still waters and only the odd river have naturally breading rainbows in this country. Rainbows are already several years old when stocked, and they don't have a long life span. Be lucky to get 12 months out of them.
Browns on the other hand live into their teens.

You give a stocked rainbow 6months longer than I did ged I guessed at 6-8 months.

 

[chilli pepper]

Personally I believe its more a statistical and shoaling thing.....

When a bunch of stockies go into a water they come from holding tanks where they've been in a tightly packed shoal for months or years and competed heavily for food. When food appears in a holding tank the first to act gets it. Don't act instantly and you don't eat.

When stockies go into a still water, they are likely to continue their stock tank behaviour, i.e. remain in shoals and continue with the competitive feeding..... eat now, think later.

Once stockies have been in the water for a while....they become so-called residents. What does that mean?. Well first it means that their numbers have been dramatically thinned by anglers, so they are 'apparently' harder to catch. Second the shoal has become 'diluted' by the size of the water as they spread out looking for food. Third they've maybe been pricked a time or three so become a lot more cautious in what they grab and 4, because they are more solitary, they don't have to be lightening fast in taking food. All in all then there are fewer fish, more spread out, that have learned to become cautious and can afford to be so as they no longer have to compete for food.

In summary, you could directly translate 'I prefer catching resident fish to stockies' to either 'I prefer fishing poorly stocked waters' or 'I prefer catching fewer fish' since the only difference between catching fresh stockies and longer term residents is, generally speaking the number of fish you catch. That's probably not exactly what he meant. More likely, 'I prefer my fishing to be a bit of a challenge'

Personally I like both....reasonable challenges, interspersed with 'fish every second cast' stockie bashing days:thumbs:

Short and to the point steve

 

[iainmortimer]

I'm surprised that nearly all the views of ' resident' fish and this guys comment to lee is being seen in a negative or sarcastic sense from he should fish low stocked waters or catch emaciated overwintered fish!

Here's a positive angle on it some of which has been mentioned and are my reasons for preferring C&R venues so that I can catch resident stockies...

1. I like the challenge of wary fish and so also like my wild brownie fishing and even on stocked stretches of the Itchen get more of a kick out of catching a smaller wildie than another 3lb stockie.
2. The river isn't open all year and so resident fish are the next best thing
3. My definition of resident is one that has developed fully formed fins rather than the stunted versions' you often see on stockies. As result residents fight harder.

Put those things together and I personally get much more fun out of struggling to get close to my limit than trying to delay it so that I can extend my fishing time as has happened a lot on stocked waters I have fished.

I guess therefore my definitions of a resident are either a wild fish or one that has survived more than a year and so is likely to be fully finned too.

... And if a water is managed properly you shouldn't get skinny emaciated fish just because they have overwintered. If you did then venues like my club waters which are 95% C&R wouldn't work

 

[chilli pepper]

How about when the fish has switched on to naturals, does not automatically chase any lure whipped across it's face, requires a natural imitation to be presented in a reasonably lifelike manner, shies away from line splash and moves quietly out of the way when a fisherman appears in it's window.

It will be interesting to see if this thread can continue without reference to "pellet pigs", "bewildered farm animals" and "stockie bashing"

Some one commented on Facebook it's when stockies get wee little houses they become resident fish. The conversation just sort of fell away after that

 

[chilli pepper]

I'm surprised that nearly all the views of ' resident' fish and this guys comment to lee is being seen in a negative or sarcastic sense from he should fish low stocked waters or catch emaciated overwintered fish!

Here's a positive angle on it some of which has been mentioned and are my reasons for preferring C&R venues so that I can catch resident stockies...

1. I like the challenge of wary fish and so also like my wild brownie fishing and even on stocked stretches of the Itchen get more of a kick out of catching a smaller wildie than another 3lb stockie.
2. The river isn't open all year and so resident fish are the next best thing
3. My definition of resident is one that has developed fully formed fins rather than the stunted versions' you often see on stockies. As result residents fight harder.

Put those things together and I personally get much more fun out of struggling to get close to my limit than trying to delay it so that I can extend my fishing time as has happened a lot on stocked waters I have fished.

I guess therefore my definitions of a resident are either a wild fish or one that has survived more than a year and so is likely to be fully finned too.

... And if a water is managed properly you shouldn't get skinny emaciated fish just because they have overwintered. If you did then venues like my club waters which are 95% C&R wouldn't work

I never took it as a negative remark I was bit shocked at his comment in the cabin. It turned Into quite a interesting topic of conversation not normally found at sharpley. I pointed out their where a few local still waters it was more challenging to catch fish and even a couple of wild brown waters closed till next year

 

[bill1]

Rainbows apparently only have about 3 to 4 year life span. When stocked at 2lb mark, they have already lived at least half that life span.

So what about these 20lb monsters the fish farms breed? Surely they must be more than 3-4 years old?

So is it that they are freaks in a specially controlled environment, or that the average farmed stock fish grown on pellets cannot find enough natural food in most fishery environments and only survives a year or so?
In which case, are estimates of surviving fish at places like our club water, disingenuous?

 

[iainmortimer]

So what about these 20lb monsters the fish farms breed? Surely they must be more than 3-4 years old?

So is it that they are freaks in a specially controlled environment, or that the average farmed stock fish grown on pellets cannot find enough natural food in most fishery environments and only survives a year or so?
In which case, are estimates of surviving fish at places like our club water, disingenuous?

I'm sure there was a documentary on TV a few years back based at one of the specialised big trout waters and they grew them on far quicker than that by using carefully controlled water temperatures and specialised feed having selected out female fish that should a naturally fast growth rate compared to their peers.

I've no idea on total life span though.

Interestingly (perhaps!), some studies have shown (Itchen based) that 'resident' i.e. overwintered fish were easier to catch in spring than the newly stocked fish! This may be because they were more switched on to the natural food source that anglers were imitating, but who knows!