Surgeon's Knot or Water Knot

FlyForumAdmin

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Use: Joining two lengths of leader material

Description: The surgeon's knot or water knot is a good knot for joining lengths of nylon or leader material and can be used for attaching a tippet to the end of a leader. If the down-pointing end is left long when tying this knot, it makes an effective dropper. There is some argument about this knot which is referred to sometimes as the double surgeon's knot: this is, actually, a 4-turn water knot.

Tying:

1. Tying this knot follows much the same procedure as the Surgeon's loop.

surg1_m.jpeg




2. The two lengths of nylon to be joined should be overlapped by some 100mm. If right-handed, hold the tag end of the tippet and the standing end of the leader with the thumb and finger of your left hand.

surg2_m.jpeg




3. Using your other hand, tie an overhand knot and make sure that the end of the tippet and the leader itself are pulled through the knot. Repeat this procedure for a true Surgeon's knot. (If you make two more overhand knots, your finished knot is a Double Surgeon's knot or 4-turn Water Knot.)

surg3_m.jpeg




4. Moisten the knot, pull it tight and trim-off the tag ends.


surg4_m.jpeg



Graphics of knots drawn by Tim Pegg of Thilmcraft Graphics. E-mail: thilm@paston.co.uk
 

Mostyn

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That's the fella! Thanks for posting an SBS!

So simple! I use it continually to create droppers. Now show the loop in leader turned back on itself and threaded through it's own loop! Another simplified way to create a dropper.
 

fredaevans

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Thubs up.

Save for hook to leader ... the only one I use. Minimum of three loops is the key. Never had one of those come apart. Well, one damned big fish proved me wrong.:eek:

fae
 

fredaevans

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minimum of three Fred :eek::eek: i only ever use two turns ;)

You need to come to my part of the World and I'll 'introduce you' (with luck) to Mr. Winter Run Steelhead. He'll be looooong gone in seconds.

Kidding aside, with heavier leader material (personal experience here only) three turns will hold a knot. Under 10#'s? You'd better be doing 4 to 5 (as you get lower) or you've got a "not-knot.":eek:

fae
 

steveparton

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Dear Fred ,

Around 40 years ago the Great Arthur Cove showed me the 4 turn version which he popularised that well that to this day it is known as the Cove Knot in the UK .

It has never ever let me down - and neither did Arthur ! A great man and my hero !

Best wishes

Steve P
 
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ACW

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I am pleased to have met Arthur,at a variety of fisheries ,game fairs and of course in tackle shops when he was delivering maggots and some exceeding good casters .
A very pleasant person to have a chat with on all things piscatorial,had a fair bit of advice on where and how to fish for salmon from him .
 

Ray of Hope

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I've only ever used two turns myself and so far so good. What are the pros and cons of adding another third turn?
 

cax

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it is a great dropper knot that can be tied with anything from 2-4 turns. How many turns depends upon the type and diameter of line you use. Some lines work better with two turns, some 3 and others 4. you must experiment if you do you will notice the differences.
I mostly use fine diameter co-polymer monos and for me a three turn works out the best for that. Then it is 2 turns for fluoro. With heavier diameter monos a 4 turn works well.

with all water knots it is so important to tie them properly or they will fail. Always ensure that all four ends receive exactly equal tension when setting the knot, this means that the longer the tag waste end the better. Set the knot slowly and carefully. And of course lubricate the knot well before setting.
 

stonepark

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I do the following based on the thinner side.

Three turns down to 15lb
Four turns down to 6lb
Five turns below 5lb and below


As the diameter of the mono decreases, the pressure increases (self cutting), by adding more turns your spread the pressure further and maintain the knot strength.
 

baz chaz

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At last something I've appeared to be doing correctly for donkeys years, 3 turn surgeons knot :thumbs:

Although interestingly that only 2 turns for fluoro ? any particular reason/advantage please ? Just started using fluoro more recently.

....I mostly use fine diameter co-polymer monos and for me a three turn works out the best for that. Then it is 2 turns for fluoro. With heavier diameter monos a 4 turn works well.
 

guilderson

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I used two turns for years. I read somewhere that a third turn would help the line lay straighter. I believe it does. I've never went to four or more turns yet. After reading the suggestions to do so on lighter connections, I'll be sure to give it a try. Great thread by the way.

Carl
 

fredaevans

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I used two turns for years. I read somewhere that a third turn would help the line lay straighter. I believe it does. I've never went to four or more turns yet. After reading the suggestions to do so on lighter connections, I'll be sure to give it a try. Great thread by the way.

Carl

Not fishing for 'trout' so take this with a grain of salt. Light leaders and three is the very minimum, run that up and I'll go to 4 or 5.
 

flyfisher147

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Ireland
Can you attach a piece of short line to two leader sections and then do the surgeons knot. Can we use it for three strands or is it two max and just leave a long tag then as the dropper. What do I do?

Sent from my Vodafone Smart ultra 6 using Tapatalk
 
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