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Thread tension

8K views 89 replies 21 participants last post by  Cap'n Fishy 
#1 ·
Hi All,

I have googled this and seen advice ranging from “as tight as possible without breaking the thread" to “just tight enough to suspend the bobbin holder”.
Also things like winding the thread around the leg of the holder before it goes through the tube or starting with minimal tension and “palm” the bobbin or squeeze the legs as you wrap to vary tension.
The above assumes a standard, two wire legged holder.
How do you control yours?
Or, is there any merit in holders with adjustable drag, if so which ones?

cheers

John
 
#2 ·
i adjust the bobbin holder arms and palm the thread spool. its hard to describe verbally how much compression i'm applying to the thread spool. after 40+ years of tying i know whats right for me

i do not believe wrapping the thread around an arm of the bobbin holder adds additional tension

youll have to adjust your bobbin holder to your tying style
 
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#3 ·
I use the older type bobbin holder and just squeeze the arms in so if I drop the holder it swing rather than drops.
When tying I hold the bobbin to adjust how tight I want the cotton.
 
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#4 ·
It’s a really good habit to learn to control thread tension by palming the spool of thread. So with that in mind try and set the bobbin so it won’t fall under its own weight, and the rest is done by hand, so to speak.
If when making multiple wraps you find the tip of the bobbin holder further and further away from the fly, then apply more pressure ; if you find yourself getting closer, apply a bit less. It’ll soon become second nature.
 
#5 · (Edited)
I've been tying flies for 50 years and have never used a bobbin holder.

It's like taking a bath with yer socks on... ?

Ask Mark Knopfler or Derek Trucks why they never use a plectrum to play the guitar... ;)

Col
 
#6 ·
I've been tying flies for 50 years and have never used a bobbin holder.

It's like taking a bath with yer socks on... ?

Ask Mark Knopfler or Derek Trucks why they never use a plectrum to play the guitar... ;)

Col
Interesting. How do you control the thread?
 
#7 ·
Buy a Rite bobbin holder John. Tension adjustment on it is the best on the market in my opinion. Worth every penny. They got fairly expensive in recent years but still good value. The only challange is spinning the bobbin when splitting the threat - it’s not symmetrical so it wobbles a bit but I got used to it. I set it so it’s tight but not tight enough to break the thread.

Just one thing - Rite bobbin holder will only fit standard size spools - can’t use it with Gossamer - I use standard Tiemco ceramic bobbin holder for those small spools.

You could also try to go bobbinless like Col but that’s hardcore.

Cheers,
Sebastian
 
#9 ·
Buy a Rite bobbin holder John. Tension adjustment on it is the best on the market in my opinion. Worth every penny. They got fairly expensive in recent years but still good value. The only challange is spinning the bobbin when splitting the threat - it's not symmetrical so it wobbles a bit but I got used to it. I set it so it's tight but not tight enough to break the thread.

Just one thing - Rite bobbin holder will only fit standard size spools - can't use it with Gossamer - I use standard Tiemco ceramic bobbin holder for those small spools.

You could also try to go bobbinless like Col but that's hardcore.

Cheers,
Sebastian
Cheers Sebastian,

I'm sure you gave me advice on this some time ago and I couldn't remember what you said then.

John
 
#24 ·
I used to shoot left handed and if a dining room place setting was left handed I found I could use it without thinking. It was suggested that some lefty/righties follow a dominant eye or had been converted as soon as left handedness was spotted.
Using fingers or tools, some people are just naturally dexterous and it is a pleasure to see them work,
my hands (the Lioness calls them "chickens feet") need tools
 
#27 ·
I'm right-eye dominant. I don't shoot with a shotgun, but they say if I did I would be far better to use it right-handed because of my eye dominance. I did a bit of .22 target shooting when I was young and I shot left-handed and just used my left eye on the sights. It worked OK.
 
#34 ·
I've been using an Ekich automatic bobbin for a few years now and it is brilliant - expensive but makes life so much easier. Have a look at his website:

 
#43 ·
I used to tie bobbin-less when I first started and I remember the tying instructions as mentioned by PaulD. "Take 10"of well-waxed tying thread etc.," The problem with that is that when the chosen fly is finished you are left with 4-5" of unused tying thread which is seldom enough to make another fly. The bobbin holder eliminates that. The only waste is the inch that gets overwound when starting the fly.

The "in the hand" method is fine if you only want one fly and like making life difficult for yourself, but when you are tying a lot of flies for sale it is time consuming and wasteful of tying thread.

I am more than happy with the collection of bobbin holders I currently have - some C & F & some just ordinary ceramics. Reading the above posts I am surprised that no-one has yet echoed a previous thread. "Are Ekich having a laugh?" $92 for a bobbin holder?
 
#44 ·
I used to tie bobbin-less when I first started and I remember the tying instructions as mentioned by PaulD. "Take 10"of well-waxed tying thread etc.," The problem with that is that when the chosen fly is finished you are left with 4-5" of unused tying thread which is seldom enough to make another fly. The bobbin holder eliminates that. The only waste is the inch that gets overwound when starting the fly.

The "in the hand" method is fine if you only want one fly and like making life difficult for yourself, but when you are tying a lot of flies for sale it is time consuming and wasteful of tying thread.

I am more than happy with the collection of bobbin holders I currently have - some C & F & some just ordinary ceramics. Reading the above posts I am surprised that no-one has yet echoed a previous thread. "Are Ekich having a laugh?" $92 for a bobbin holder?
The Ekich is $80+$12 p&p. The Norvise version is $95 so assuming the same postage that's $107 ?
I thought I was being extravagant when I ordered a Rite holder for £22 this week. As it happens it was out of stock so I haven't even spent that much!
 
#66 ·
These are my favourite bobbin holders. They were a present from my friend in the Netherlands who made them. They even have miniature cork disc drags ??
Smoooooooth ??
Font Wood Circle Tool Audio equipment
 
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#67 ·
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#70 · (Edited)
It tends to flatten whether I want it or not! Tying left-handed, I find most threads, flosses, chenilles, fritzes, and everything else that gets wound tends to unravel when wound leftie. So, I am forever twirling things anticlockwise to try and tighten them up as I go along.

Here is a video of me tying one of the flies I am currently doing a re-stock on...



Col
 
#72 ·
I thought you tied lefty. I think this is a major advantage when using a bobbin holder resting suspended above the desk height. Quick 2 second spin while picking up anything and I have the thread flat or twisted, ready for the next application. Do you twist the thread itself or reach down and spin the spool?
 
#77 ·
I never spin the spool. I just twizzle the thread in my fingers. I totally accept there are advantages to bobbin-holders. It's just that any time I try to use one, I just find it to be a lumpy encumbrance that gets in the way between me and the fly.

Col
 
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#73 ·
Hi All,

I have googled this and seen advice ranging from "as tight as possible without breaking the thread" to "just tight enough to suspend the bobbin holder".
Also things like winding the thread around the leg of the holder before it goes through the tube or starting with minimal tension and "palm" the bobbin or squeeze the legs as you wrap to vary tension.
The above assumes a standard, two wire legged holder.
How do you control yours?
Or, is there any merit in holders with adjustable drag, if so which ones?

cheers

John
I have been using a Petitjean bobbin holder for three years now. It is much less fiddly than the Rite bobbin, adjusts the tension well, is very quick to load and I use it for all of my tying now. It weighs 10g empty and spins well. It does however have its quirks. You need to wind with the smooth side facing you and to keep the thread under tension when pushing the point away from you as otherwise it tends to unthread itself. If I were starting again this is the one I would buy even though it is pricey.
 

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#74 ·
Col
,just a little suprised re Bucknall,both my wife and i attended his flydressing classes in Clerkenwell ,guess it was early 70s ,he certainly sold me a couple of the horrid veniards bobin holders which we used in the classes.
 
#78 ·
Col
,just a little suprised re Bucknall,both my wife and i attended his flydressing classes in Clerkenwell ,guess it was early 70s ,he certainly sold me a couple of the horrid veniards bobin holders which we used in the classes.
Did he use one himself when demonstrating, Andy?

I taught fly-tying classes in the 1980s. I never used a bobbin-holder myself when demonstrating. I'm trying to remember what the folk I was teaching did. :unsure: I don't think I tried to tell them not to use one... I hope I didn't! :oops:
 
#76 ·
You're very efficient without the bobbin Col its a joy to watch. Just curious about how you wrap the thread around your finger how does your finger stay the distance from the hook like how does it not wrap all the way to the hook? Is your finger sliding down the loop of thread?
Cheers. I had to go away and do it to see what I am doing so I could come back and answer your question. It's something you do instinctively without being aware of it!

So, I run the thread over my forefinger tip, round it and down into the palm of my hand... and from there the thread goes down to the hanging spool. The thread forms a slipping clutch, so as I wind, I just slip-feed more thread up and out from my fingertip, exactly the same as you bobbin-holder users do.

Col
 
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#79 ·
I run the thread over my forefinger tip, round it and down into the palm of my hand... and from there the thread goes down to the hanging spool. The thread forms a slipping clutch, so as I wind, I just slip-feed more thread up and out from my fingertip, exactly the same as you bobbin-holder users do.
I realised in conversation with a member that the key to the 'finger' method is the lightweight spool hanging down. It's adding just the right amount of tension to create the 'slipping clutch' through the hand and onto the fly. Any extra wight (such as a bobbin-holder would add) would mess with the fine balance of the clutch. I would need to recalibrate my fingers... and I think they are too old for that now! ?
 
#83 ·
It may just have been that as my local tackle dealer it was an extra sale.
Funnily enough, I was thinking along those lines, too!

Iam still using my Thompson vice he sold me way back then...
The vice I used in the 1980s was one of 2 that a mate of mine who worked for Customs and Excise confiscated from a ship coming in from the far east. His colleagues searched it for drugs and found a hidden compartment and thought they were onto some good opium or whatnot. Instead they found some hardware that they didn't recognise and thought it must be something to do with processing drugs. They showed these two items to my mate who, being a fisherman, instantly recognised them as fly-tying vices. So, he said, "I'll take these." He kept one for himself and gave the other to me. Why they were trying to smuggle fly-tying vices into the UK remains a mystery to this day.

Col
 
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#84 ·
OK, take 2 on the Crippled Midge video. Adjusted the exposure. Much better this time. Wore a black fleece to make a low key background. Only slight issue was height. The vice is fixed. I needed to be slightly higher to avoid my neckline getting in at the top, but I am sitting on the chair the NHS gave me after my hip op. And it's as high as it goes!

Made the mistake of sitting down with a mug of coffee and ended up editing-out me drinking coffee several times. Oops!

Also edited out a couple of moments where the materials refused to do what I was telling them, and required a Basil Fawlty telling-to. I guess that happens to all of us! While winding the hackle, it flipped 180 degrees, and I just went with it. None of these issues in the overexposed version, eh? :rolleyes:

However, on the plus side, I remembered not to chop-off the front breather filaments this time. That was on account of the last batch of flies I tied being the mayfly paraloop spinners, where you do chop-off the hackle-post flush.

So, replacement video...

 
#87 ·
As already mentioned in post #25, there is no need to waste any thread when not using a bobbin-holder. Do you know how a closed-face spinning reel works? ?

Need some more thread?



Just disengage the spool and peel some off...



Then re-engage the spool. Carry on tying. Simples! ;)
Here you go. A hybrid of your technique but with the added benefit of a bobbin holder nozzle.

Just messing ?
6D36B96B-F68F-4249-A8D0-DE8CA235F33B.jpeg
Table Wood Gesture Finger Gadget
 
#88 ·
Here you go. A hybrid of your technique but with the added benefit of a bobbin holder nozzle.

Just messing ?
Good idea. Just depends on whether you find the addition of a bobbin holder nozzle a benefit or a nuisance. I would be in the latter camp, but some might find it useful. (y)

Col
 
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