Trebuchet Fly Rods

RPS

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Over the last few days I couldn't help but notice the advert for Trebuchet fly rods from Bloke.

BLOKE FLY RODS - The Heart and Soul of Fly Fishing

I have looked at the link but there is no mention of the rod action (one of the first things I look for) but there is an interesting description of the weights that can be inserted in the butt of the rod. Does anyone have any information on what it is like to cast one of these "TREBUCHET" rods?

Years ago I tried weights on conventional rods but, and although in one case I think that I left the lead weight on for 2-3 years, with most I just stopped using them.
 

ACW

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Over the last few days I couldn't help but notice the advert for Trebuchet fly rods from Bloke.

BLOKE FLY RODS - The Heart and Soul of Fly Fishing

I have looked at the link but there is no mention of the rod action (one of the first things I look for) but there is an interesting description of the weights that can be inserted in the butt of the rod. Does anyone have any information on what it is like to cast one of these "TREBUCHET" rods?

Years ago I tried weights on conventional rods but, and although in one case I think that I left the lead weight on for 2-3 years, with most I just stopped using them.
Interesting
seems a common idea at the moment ,Alan Maughan is going down the same route.Lord geoff has a huge lump of metal in the but of his 18 footer,not so recent !
 

j-the-trout

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Mmmm. Sounds a bit like putting a heavy reel on would do something similar. Now, where did I read some arguments about that ......?

Jeff
 
Z

zoomer

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i cant figure the point of the super light titanium reel seat with a weighted butt:confused:
 

brooktrout

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i cant figure the point of the super light titanium reel seat with a weighted butt:confused:

Nor with a four and a half inch cast or machined alloy reel compared to a similar billet machined magnesium reel, but then you could always saw off the butt section and use the rod hand lined. Just a bit messy going home with a bundle of string in your jacket pocket.
 
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gunandrod

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It's just another sales gimmick.
If the rod was designed correctly in the first place it wouldn't need weights in the butt.

Just my opinion
Paul
 

graylingus

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i think the idea, Paul, is that you can change the "feel" of the rod to something that feels more comfortable for you. obviously the action will not change, there is no change to the blank or fittings, and the flex wont change cos theres no change to the line, but there is an opportunity to make the rod feel different in your hands.
it could be that the weights give you more of an opportunity to like the rod!


It's just another sales gimmick.
If the rod was designed correctly in the first place it wouldn't need weights in the butt.

Just my opinion
Paul
 

Brennan

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How is it the old adage goes- 'if it's not broke...'

I agree with Paul, just another gimmick.

Also, this is just my opinion :)

Brennan
 

guest21

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How is it the old adage goes- 'if it's not broke...'

I agree with Paul, just another gimmick.

Also, this is just my opinion :)

Brennan

Probably designed for people who believe that 'gullible' has been removed from the Concise Oxford Dictionary.
 

graylingus

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Ha, ok, well im not gonna try and alter everyones opinion, but i will say this. next time you go out fishing take a big lump of blu-tac and try putting a bit on the rod on different places, it does change the feel of a rod.
plus i find it hard to beliee that any rod Bloke produce wouldnt be pretty darned good, the XL50 10' 7# is one of my favourite single handed rods.

Probably designed for people who believe that 'gullible' has been removed from the Concise Oxford Dictionary.
 

rrw35

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Probably designed for people who believe that 'gullible' has been removed from the Concise Oxford Dictionary.


Yeah, I know, there's one born every minute.:rolleyes:

They look fantastic. How much are they?:D

Micks 15 footer would be hard to beat. That is a real weapon of a Double Hander.:eek:
 

bloke

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It's just another sales gimmick.
If the rod was designed correctly in the first place it wouldn't need weights in the butt.

Just my opinion
Paul

Paul
I have been working on the Trebuchet project for around four years, It has cost me thousands of man hours and about £20k to launch this range, just out of interest how much time and money did you put into your research before you decided to make an "informed" observation....2p and 15 seconds?

You are probably not aware but I think I know a little bit about designing rods that can cast...So far my rods have been used to break four casting records:

The Irish Trout Distance record
The World Saltwater Casting Record
The BFCC 7wt Casting record by Paul Arden
The BFCC 7wt Casting record by Mike Heritage

Nothing I have ever designed or marketed has been at the whim of a "Gimmick" and it never will be, maybe thats how you run whatever business you are in but it isn't the way I run mine....

You might be interested to know (although I very much doubt it) that one of the most respected rod designers and manufacturers in the UK has a carp rod called Trebuchet, I know little about the design but thought you would like to take this opportunity to attack his product as well.

http://www.harrisonrods.co.uk/rods and blanks/Trebuchet.htm

Maybe you would like to share your research and experience relating to prepreg CF, oscillation, primary and secondary frequencies and rod-dampening so we understand you better.
Mick
 
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gunandrod

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Mick
I don't doubt your expertise in rod design and yes your rods have been used to break some distance records, but surely the skills of the casters involved played a much greater part. Otherwise all we need is a Bloke rod to achieve
record distance (I think not)

Fifty plus years fishing in all disciplines using all types of rods gives me some experience of actually using a rod. Not designing them I must admit.
I have in the past tried adding weight to the butt of a rod and found it to be no use whatever.

I stand by my OPINION (a further 5p and 30secs research) that the weights are a gimmick and will not in any way change the casting ability of either the rod or the person casting with it. If one felt the need to alter the weight in the lower part of a fly rod just use a lighter or heavier reel.

I read the link to the Harrison site you posted and cannot see any relevance to your rod. There is no mention of weights that can be added to the butt of his rod. Also a carp rod designed to cast 2 or 3 ounces of lead 200 yds is a completely different tool to a Salmon rod designed to cast a fly line 50 to 60
yards.

I am sorry if I upset you ( which from the tone of your reply I did) but I am still allowed to voice my OPINION on the forum.

All the very best
Paul
 

guest21

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next time you go out fishing take a big lump of blu-tac and try putting a bit on the rod on different places, it does change the feel of a rod.

Next time you go out fishing put a couple of sacks of cement in the boot of your car, it does change the feel of a car. :D
 
Z

zoomer

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maybe the responses here are a sign of how cynical we have become about manufacturers claims in their advertising in the broader scale of things,
i'd like an explanation of what benefits there are to the trebuchet concept but im guessing it would be open to a few pelters.
 

bloke

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Mick
I don't doubt your expertise in rod design and yes your rods have been used to break some distance records, but surely the skills of the casters involved played a much greater part. Otherwise all we need is a Bloke rod to achieve
record distance (I think not)

Fifty plus years fishing in all disciplines using all types of rods gives me some experience of actually using a rod. Not designing them I must admit.
I have in the past tried adding weight to the butt of a rod and found it to be no use whatever.

I stand by my OPINION (a further 5p and 30secs research) that the weights are a gimmick and will not in any way change the casting ability of either the rod or the person casting with it. If one felt the need to alter the weight in the lower part of a fly rod just use a lighter or heavier reel.

I read the link to the Harrison site you posted and cannot see any relevance to your rod. There is no mention of weights that can be added to the butt of his rod. Also a carp rod designed to cast 2 or 3 ounces of lead 200 yds is a completely different tool to a Salmon rod designed to cast a fly line 50 to 60
yards.

I am sorry if I upset you ( which from the tone of your reply I did) but I am still allowed to voice my OPINION on the forum.

All the very best
Paul


Paul
Actually you are wrong....
With respect. When I first came across this design....I thought like you.
Now I think differently.
M
 

bloke

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maybe the responses here are a sign of how cynical we have become about manufacturers claims in their advertising in the broader scale of things,
i'd like an explanation of what benefits there are to the trebuchet concept but im guessing it would be open to a few pelters.
Zoomer

A very fair comment.

The Bloke Trebuchet System offers exciting benefits to the modern fly caster.
First of all, the Trebuchet System positioned in the butt of the rod adds to the leverage enabling the cast to be made with less effort from the bottom hand in double handed casting. Because the Trebuchet System is located behind the fly reel, it acts in a different way to simply adding a heavier fly reel.
Simply increasing the weight of the fly reel does add to the overall leverage effect but here’s where the Bloke Trebuchet System differs. In having a fine adjustment placed behind the reel you are also able to more effectively dampen unwanted vibration (in the form of tip bounce) as the system works in conjunction with the reel to help dampen the rod. By adding adjustments(and taking the weight of the reel into account) the system can fine tune the amount of dampening you require to suit your own feel.
The Bloke Trebuchet System allows customisable feel!. By adjusting the Trebuchet System you alter the frequency the fly rod naturally oscillates at. This, in layman’s terms means you can change the way the rod feels when roll casting , Spey casting and overhead casting by adjusting the dampening in the butt. Casting is a mixture of moving the rod through its primary and secondary frequencies. Primary frequency is where we hold the rod by the handle and move it from side to side. The rod has a single bend that is from butt to tip. The “Shop Wiggle” is the Secondary frequency and during this wiggle the tip of the rod is moving in the opposite direction to the mid section and a dead spot forms roughly where the tip section joint is on a 4 piece rod. Knowing where this dead spot is and how much the tip oscillates in comparison to the mid section can allow you to gauge how the rod will perform during casting, even though the vast majority aren’t able to establish this from the shop wiggle. Here’s how: On a tip actioned rod the dead spot will be approximately at the joint of the tip to the second section. As the tip moves up the mid section of the rod moves down and as they reach their limits, the action reverses. However, a tip actioned rod will have a small amount of oscillation in the mid section in comparison to the tip. On very tip actioned rods the tip will be oscillating roughly twice as far as the mid section of the rod.
Conversely, on a middle action rod the tip and the mid section should be oscillating a more similar amount. The tip should be oscillating about the same distance as the mid section. The dead spot may also be in a different position to the tip auctioned rod. The larger the oscillation of the rod in the mid section the easier the rod will be to roll cast. The further down the rod the dead spot is, the easier the rod is to roll cast. A rod that is easier to roll cast is also more forgiving in casting timing and power application.
Using the Bloke Trebuchet system allows us to alter the frequency and “feel” of the rod. Adjusting the system behind the reel it alters the frequency characteristics of the rod during the “shop wiggle” and allows you to tune the rod to feel perfect to YOU. It allows you to custom fit your feel. In the shop you may wiggle many rods to find one that is “Just right”! The Bloke Trebuchet system allows you to fine tune the rod so that it feels just right for you.
There is also an element of counter-balance to be taken into consideration but my field testing shows that this is very much a matter of personal preference as no two casters are the same, if you look at how both hands in a spey cast work with equal and opposite force, in theory that force should be just that....equal. but in underhand casting with fast tip actioned rods,the lower hand exerts more energy into the blank and the upper hand plays a major roll in tracking the rod tip. In Skagit casting with softer actioned rods and overweighted lines the casting stroke is slower and the upper hand tends to control the action angle of the rod. By allowing for an adjustment in the balance of the rod and by incorporating counterweights it is possible to change the feel to suit your style....actually there is nothing really new in this, modern composite bow makers have been at it for yonks.
What I also discovered in the field tests last summer is that a number of casters made a different adjustment when faced with casting into the wind, I was somewhat at a loss to understand this but the conclusion I drew is that there was a possible pyscological element to be taken into consideration, when faced with a headwind I believe many people decide that to get the distance they require they must change their casting stroke but then having made an intelligent decision decide that brute force is what is required and beast the blank with little or no technique...I should point out that it was at this stage several casters decided to take the weights out all together!!
In closing,what the Trebuchet system offers is the ability to choose what is right for you. If that is a bad thing then I am obviously barking up the wrong tree!
 
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Z

zoomer

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Zoomer
I guess you know nothing about me or Bloke....I am a simple rod builder with a passion.... I am only really, really small, maybe 8 rods a month (on a good month)
I dont class myself as a manufacturer to be honest....
I do however own a business in China....we make rods for three companies in the UK, four in the US and three in Scandinavia.
BlueMoon Fishing | Homepage
Bloke is the result of all the best research available....but really,really tiny.
M


i didnt, although i have tried a Bloke rod, i was curious about the weights, i would imagine it makes the tip feel lighter but the rod heavier, just puzzled.
 

noeyedeer

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CF quality

To lighten the discussion somewhat (whilst remaining technical!):-

Mick, I am involved in development of an (existing) woven fabric vision system for on-loom quality inspection, towards the specific requirements of the carbon fabric industry.

This is a very niche area and I'd be interested in your thoughts (maybe via pm?) on availability of high quality CF, also how much quality varies and what guarantees you can get from your suppliers?

(Our system would provide 100% automated visual quality control at point of fabric formation).

Some CF weavers have claimed they do not get defects but we know this is not the case. If manual inspection can be eliminated, the price /m2 can reduce to the end user.......

Dave
 
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