Tungsten flies when heavy out fishes light?

[icejohn]

This is a question for the more experienced anglers that use a french leader. Thusly I was fishing a river with a friend and the flow was slow to moderate. Waist deep water, Flies 2,5mm in 16 top and bottom fly size 12 2.5 mm

Friend was using 2,5mm size 16 top fly and 5mm size 10 fly.

Odd fish was rising so the fish were active. I was 100% sure my flies were getting down and I was getting nice drifts occasionally tapping the bottom. I had one fish and two takes and my friend had 5 fish grayling and lots of takes. In the space of half and hour over the same 40m of water.

How was this possible given the fact his flies were hitting bottom almost instantly had to drag his flies back to him as we both were casting up stream. My flies had nice natural drift with the speed of the river his clearly did not yet the fish really wanted this unnatural drift etc. All fish were on the sz16 both only fishing 2 fly rig.

Anyone got any answers?

I hardly use any 5mm flies possibly in flood water conditions ONLY.

 

[JCP]

This is a question for the more experienced anglers that use a french leader. Thusly I was fishing a river with a friend and the flow was slow to moderate. Waist deep water, Flies 2,5mm in 16 top and bottom fly size 12 2.5 mm

Friend was using 2,5mm size 16 top fly and 5mm size 10 fly.

Odd fish was rising so the fish were active. I was 100% sure my flies were getting down and I was getting nice drifts occasionally tapping the bottom. I had one fish and two takes and my friend had 5 fish grayling and lots of takes. In the space of half and hour over the same 40m of water.

How was this possible given the fact his flies were hitting bottom almost instantly had to drag his flies back to him as we both were casting up stream. My flies had nice natural drift with the speed of the river his clearly did not yet the fish really wanted this unnatural drift etc. All fish were on the sz16 both only fishing 2 fly rig.

Anyone got any answers?

I hardly use any 5mm flies possibly in flood water conditions ONLY.

Could it be the erratic tripping and lifting imparted a natural ''induced'' movement into the nymphs ?
JP

 

[Scotty Mitchell]

Sometimes the fish are hard on the bottom.
On another day you’d have caught more than your mate.
Grayling won’t move as far for a fly as a Trout.

 

[andygrey]

This is a question for the more experienced anglers that use a french leader. Thusly I was fishing a river with a friend and the flow was slow to moderate. Waist deep water, Flies 2,5mm in 16 top and bottom fly size 12 2.5 mm

Friend was using 2,5mm size 16 top fly and 5mm size 10 fly.

Odd fish was rising so the fish were active. I was 100% sure my flies were getting down and I was getting nice drifts occasionally tapping the bottom. I had one fish and two takes and my friend had 5 fish grayling and lots of takes. In the space of half and hour over the same 40m of water.

How was this possible given the fact his flies were hitting bottom almost instantly had to drag his flies back to him as we both were casting up stream. My flies had nice natural drift with the speed of the river his clearly did not yet the fish really wanted this unnatural drift etc. All fish were on the sz16 both only fishing 2 fly rig.

Anyone got any answers?

I hardly use any 5mm flies possibly in flood water conditions ONLY.

Was there much of a difference between the distance from point fly to dropper?

 

[icejohn]

Same distance spacing and same length of Dropper and same tippet of 3lb fly patterns the same.

 

[rabmax]

They don't alway's want a dead drift.I often fish a drop shot nymph rig in winter. Sometimes with as much weight as your mate or more.Basicaly drag it along the bottom giving little lifts during the drift.( To induce takes).Don't alway's do this though even with a drop shot rig.Often looking to glide through the zone.Different day's they want different presentations.Good subject though & nice to read what other fishers experience. Cheers

 

[Scotty Mitchell]

Worth bearing in mind also that the fish will see the lighter fly first.

 

[BobP]

I would say that your friend's heavy point fly slowed down the whole rig thus giving the fish more time to see the fly. Your lighter rig was travelling through quicker and in cold water the grayling were reluctant to move. They are well noted for wanting the fly all but delivered straight into their mouths at the best of times and in winter even more so.

A good reason for having a box of split shot to add to the leader between the two flies. I had to add shot to a leader back in October in order to get a nymph down to grayling sitting in a clear pocket between weedbeds on the Itchen where the tungsten beaded nymph was not heavy enough to get down quickly into the limited space. Couple of BB dropped the rig straight into the hole and got one of the two grayling I had seen. Not pretty and certainly not chalkstream etiquette but effective.

 

[icejohn]

Thanks for the replies chaps. Basically my mate's presentation sucked he was basically dragging the flies along the bottom pretty sure. They anchored up at times too! The currant wasn't strong enough to move them. Calling what he was doing a drift would be stretching the word "drift" lol.

And this was last October not too cold. Fish were rising occasionally.

I agree with you Bob he must have been delivering the flies straight into the fishes mouths!. I was just very frustrated that had I not seen it wouldn't have believed it.

 

[wobbly face]

Another thing to bear in mind, your mate using a heavier rig would also be more in touch with the nymphs so spotting and detecting takes better.

 

[BobP]

Well, all you can say icejohn is that they don't call them "Lady of the Stream" for nothing. Sometimes they are just plain blo*dy minded.

On reflection, when his rig hung up it would have swung the dropper nymph closer to the bottom and if that happened right in front of the grayling............!

 

[andygrey]

I've seen grayling take a dropper fly when the point has been snagged and I've been trying to free it.
No 'dead drift' just a fly fluttering fixed in the current.

 

[tierradelfuego]

I've seen grayling take a dropper fly when the point has been snagged and I've been trying to free it.
No 'dead drift' just a fly fluttering fixed in the current.

I do love Grayling, maybe because they're not the smartest fish in the river, although as BobP says they can be bloody minded.

I remember one day in the 1st pool on the Lambourn stretch in Newbury, I had the rod held up vertical with the point fly dangling no more than 5' behind me, probably more like 3', as I fixed something on the setup, and yup a 15" lady decided it was a perfectly acceptable drift.

Can't remember if I counted it in my "number" for the day

 

[lhomme]

I've seen grayling take a dropper fly when the point has been snagged and I've been trying to free it.
No 'dead drift' just a fly fluttering fixed in the current.

Happens even more when you swap flies (heavy nymph on the dropper (thicker line), light one on the point (thinner line)), I used to fish a lot like that and it made more sense to me, especially with micro-nymphs for grayling on the point.

 

[JCP]

Which fly was favoured as in point or dropper ? or was it pretty even.From descrption if dropper favoured rig possibly fishing more like a drop shot rig.

JP

 

[Mr Notherone]

I say your friend was ledgering........should be reported


More seriously, I'd say probably a combination a bit more time to spot the fly and movement inducing the take, particularly as the fish were caught on the dropper. Was the water visibility poor?

 

[icejohn]

Water was Crystal clear, all fish came on the size 16. Yeah he was very close to legering lol.

 

[JCP]

Water was Crystal clear, all fish came on the size 16. Yeah he was very close to legering lol.

Did'nt know could tie a Bristol mouse that small John .Drop shot style presentation is very productive.In US they use shot on the point to do just that.

JP