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Typical amount of line out before shooting

12K views 117 replies 19 participants last post by  GEK79 
#1 ·
Hi folks,

Am just playing about with my new 4# rod. The WF line I'm using has a total head length of 46 ft, and there is a colour change there. So I was thinking that for best shooting, I should get all that line out of the rod tip before I shoot. However it feels very cumbersome having that much line in the air

I know every rod is different, but in general do you get the entire head out before shooting, or would you get, say, 30 ft out and then shoot from there.

This is probably all a bit academic because I will be using this rod for river fishing where long casting is not so important
 
#3 ·
Hi folks,

Am just playing about with my new 4# rod. The WF line I'm using has a total head length of 46 ft, and there is a colour change there. So I was thinking that for best shooting, I should get all that line out of the rod tip before I shoot. However it feels very cumbersome having that much line in the air

I know every rod is different, but in general do you get the entire head out before shooting, or would you get, say, 30 ft out and then shoot from there.

This is probably all a bit academic because I will be using this rod for river fishing where long casting is not so important
lit depends how far you want to cast....
for example if you are casting 70', with a 9' rod,,, then the head plus rod gives you 55'... so you'd only need to shoot 15' to hit the 70' mark, so you could carry less than the full head... if you were casting 80' then the whole head would be better...
if you don't like the feel of carrying the full head... and you're not planning on casting that sort of distance I wouldn't worry about it, or get a shooting head:)
or improve your casting technique;)
 
#4 ·
It's the first 30’ of the line that is designed to be the optimum weight for the rod. After that you're overloading the rod.

With with a nine foot rod, 30’ of line in the air, a very modest 10’ of shooting line, and a 12’ leader you're comfortably casting 61’. That's normally more than enough, particularly for a light rod.

Of course you can aerialise more line, but it's hard work and not many can do it and still turn over the leader.
 
#11 ·
To all

A good caster can do a lot of things with a rod and line that your average weekend angler can't. There's no point using double-hauling, professional casting as the standard when we're talking to everyday anglers.

If we're talking to a relative beginner or someone that's been an occasional angler for a long time and doesn't study these things in detail, it's best to keep things simple and standard.

Lines ARE designed to be optimal at 30’ - or should be - when they deliberately vary from that they should say so (some do some don't, many just get it wrong.)

We know that the ATFMA/AFTTA 'standards' are at very best subjective but they are what we have.
 
#12 ·
To all

A good caster can do a lot of things with a rod and line that your average weekend angler can't. There's no point using double-hauling, professional casting as the standard when we're talking to everyday anglers.

If we're talking to a relative beginner or someone that's been an occasional angler for a long time and doesn't study these things in detail, it's best to keep things simple and standard.

Lines ARE designed to be optimal at 30' - or should be - when they deliberately vary from that they should say so (some do some don't, many just get it wrong.)

We know that the ATFMA/AFTTA 'standards' are at very best subjective but they are what we have.
I have to disagree, with respect, to say that lines are designed to be 'optimal' at 30' doses't really make sense.
The AFTMA standard is a guide for manufactures but they design lines around this and as we all know there is a bewildering array of different profiles and head weights that are all 'rated' the same.
Different line designs are designed to do different things and to suit different casting styles, abilities and fishing situations. It's not juts about being able to cast to their 'optimum' at 30'
 
#20 ·
To the OP. Learn to double haul with a casting instructor (if you live within reach of East Cornwall I will give you a free 1hr lesson). This should be seen as an ESSENTIAL fly fishing life skill.
Do not get confused by all the above about rods and line ratings. There is much wisdom therein but it's complicated. At this stage stick to the line rating on the rod.
Richard
 
#27 ·
Oh man, I didn't mean to set off WW3!

And I'm not a beginner, even though I might have asked a "beginner's" question! I'm a reasonably good caster, but as I said, because I mainly river fish I rarely need to do long casts...
Listen! Tangled called you a 'beginner' so . . . you're a beginner! Tangled 'understands' everything.
 
#32 ·
Anyway, on the double-haul.

I must have fished for 20 before I even heard of it. I guess it always existed because I was initially taught the single-haul and it would only have been called that if there was double version of it.

It's mostly a distance casting aid, though I have seen it in videos used in ordinary casting ordinary distances. There is something satisfying about it, and once you 'get' it; it gives you a great feeling of timing. It does seem to be one of those few things that when you first try it, it seems impossible but then all at once you get it and then you keep it; like riding a bike.

My casting instructor tells me not to use it unless I really have to, he reckons it's mostly a way of casting your errors further.
 
#36 ·
Hi folks,

Am just playing about with my new 4# rod. The WF line I'm using has a total head length of 46 ft, and there is a colour change there. So I was thinking that for best shooting, I should get all that line out of the rod tip before I shoot. However it feels very cumbersome having that much line in the air

I know every rod is different, but in general do you get the entire head out before shooting, or would you get, say, 30 ft out and then shoot from there.

This is probably all a bit academic because I will be using this rod for river fishing where long casting is not so important
What line is it by the way?
 
#44 ·
If you’re river fishing, 46 feet of line on a back cast, sounds like a real World recipe for spending a lot of time in the bushes vegetation and trees.
I tend to use short head/belly lines and fast glass rods, which load really fast and do as much roll and switch casting as back casting, our syndicate waters are well overgrown where all the fish are.
I wouldn’t worry too much, how far do you normally need to cast? I generally catch most with10-20 feet of line outside my rod tip-8’ of rod and 8/9’ if leader so 26 to 36 feet range. Admittedly I stalk most of my quarry.
 
#46 ·
If it's modelled on the Rio Gold. and shares the same 'numbers as a Rio Gold, the first 30ft of taper, the AFTM measure length, would weigh 8.2g - the AFTM table states 7.78g for a 4wt. The whole head, some 46ft weighs 11.3g on a 4wt Rio Gold - the 30ft taper for a 7wt should weigh around 11.99g

Effectively, if you're trying to hold the full head in the air, you're effectively loading your rod with a 7wt.
 
#51 ·
Hi folks,

Am just playing about with my new 4# rod. The WF line I'm using has a total head length of 46 ft, and there is a colour change there. So I was thinking that for best shooting, I should get all that line out of the rod tip before I shoot. However it feels very cumbersome having that much line in the air

I know every rod is different, but in general do you get the entire head out before shooting, or would you get, say, 30 ft out and then shoot from there.

This is probably all a bit academic because I will be using this rod for river fishing where long casting is not so important
What's the rod and length?
 
#60 ·
I had the #5 version of these and I felt it it wouldn't handle a wide range of loads. You had to get a fair bit of line out to load, but it would soon "fold" if you tried to push it with a heavier line or carrying a longer line.
I have only had one day casting the rod as yet so I still haven't tested it out fully. From my experience so far, I didn't have much hassle getting it to load with shorter lengths of line, but as I said once I had the whole head aerilised it definitely felt unwieldy.
 
#65 ·
Hi folks,

Am just playing about with my new 4# rod. The WF line I'm using has a total head length of 46 ft, and there is a colour change there. So I was thinking that for best shooting, I should get all that line out of the rod tip before I shoot. However it feels very cumbersome having that much line in the air

I know every rod is different, but in general do you get the entire head out before shooting, or would you get, say, 30 ft out and then shoot from there.

This is probably all a bit academic because I will be using this rod for river fishing where long casting is not so important
My car has an accelerator pedal that goes all the way to the floor, do I use all of it?

The answer is it depends on how far you want to cast, which is variable distances, all of it out if you want to cast far, not all of it out for less.

You might want a shorter head.
 
#68 ·
Hi folks,

Am just playing about with my new 4# rod. The WF line I'm using has a total head length of 46 ft, and there is a colour change there. So I was thinking that for best shooting, I should get all that line out of the rod tip before I shoot. However it feels very cumbersome having that much line in the air

I know every rod is different, but in general do you get the entire head out before shooting, or would you get, say, 30 ft out and then shoot from there.

This is probably all a bit academic because I will be using this rod for river fishing where long casting is not so important
On reflection a 46 foot head is pretty long, It's more like what you would use for Stillwater/lake. For river use I prefer around 30 or 35 feet max. The Scierra Brook lines are not too expensive and are supple, smooth, high floating and turnover leaders really well. They have a short belly.
 
#69 ·
Let's not forget that these are copies of American, Rio lines, where the fishing environment of often very different from what we encounter here - often longer casting, presenting small, often very small flies to fish in exceptionally clear water. These longer taper, longer head lines are excellent for maintaining control of the line in the air for mends and slack line casts etc is places like this . . .

Water Sky Cloud Fluid Natural landscape
 
#74 ·
To put all this in context consider the following. I have a spinning rod that is 8 feet long and rated 5-25g lure weight. Now the lower end of that scale, 5g, corresponds to the weight of #2 line on the AFTM scale. The upper end, 25g, corresponds to the weight of #12 line on that scale. So if I tape a fly reel onto the bottom of the handle of this rod, shouldn't I expect to be able to cast ANY fly line between #2 and #12 on it?
 
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