Understanding Carbon Trout Rods

[ohanzee]

At last! Perfectly phrased Alan...

Now that I read it I think I could maybe phrase it clearer actually

 

[PaulD]

I have done it. I've done it for over 30 years. I'm a pretty bloody good caster and angler. Try to get that into your head. I'm a practical person with a theoretical interest. And information can, of course, be assembled, it's called research. I do that too.

And also that there are different points of view that are equally valid.

[/QUOTE]

Sadly, assembling differing points of view, quoting often aged articles, and promoting those which tend to support your 'point of view' isn't research.

 

[Tangled]

Two things here, observations,

'Put a line that corresponds to it's actual power rating and you have a 'normal' fishing rod'...if you cast it to the sort of distance its designed to you achieve the same thing, its a high performance rod...clue there.

Yes I know

The other thing is 'feel', tried to explain it previously, compared to a softer rod a stiffer rod will lack feel until you get used to it, its stiffer, get over it, when you get used to it and start to feel it going back to whatever it was you had before will feel soft and spongy, you didn't get used to it because you didn't know this, so stop trying to pretend you have more experience with these things than you have, its really obvious from this you say.

Oh stop it. I don't want to fish with a rod all day that has no feel at normal fishing distances or will smash a fine tippet. It's no fun. The Igniter is not a rod I want to be roll casting on a small river it was not designed for it. There are better tools for that job.

“ The most demanding conditions require a different kind of tool. Strong head wind? Fish at distance? Bulky rigs? Heavy sink-tips? The IGNITER is tuned to handle the most technical of conditions. Not a rod for the everyday angler, the IGNITER is equipped with a high line speed taper to carry large amounts of line at distance with wind cutting performance. Perfect for streamer fishing with heavy sink tips or covering big water when conditions turn south. If you bring the will, the IGNITER will supply the way.”

 

[Tangled]

Verified by who? Self praise is no........& all that, isn't it?

GAIA “An experienced and competent caster with a wide range of casts”

People only read what they want to read here.

 

[Tangled]

Your 'evidence' is a collection of other peoples opinions cherry picked to match your own, and when explained to you, you refuse to accept.

What is it that you think I disagree with? Haven't you noticed that almost everything you say I can say 'I know to'.

As far as I can see our only point of difference is in whether some of this stuff can be measured. Everything else is you telling me I can't cast. Despite never seeing me do it.

So what is it?

 

[Tangled]

Sadly, assembling differing points of view, quoting often aged articles, and promoting those which tend to support your 'point of view' isn't research.

The point of quoting respected industry gurus is so that I'm not accused of presenting only my own unsupported opinion.

The last one I posted was from summer 2020 from Simon Gawseworth. It elicited a spluttering bunch of emoticons and exclamation marks, indignation and no explanatory content whatsoever. (Not you.)

If you seriously think I 'cherry pick' articles, the come here with similar authoritative quotes that contradict them. Quit waving your arms around pointlessly.

 

[bobmiddlepoint]

Quit waving your arms around pointlessly.

Everything you have said leads us all to believe that this is what you do with a rod in your hands.

 

[Tangled]

Everything you have said leads us all to believe that this is what you do with a rod in your hands.

And yet another contentless reply.

 

[Tangled]

The other thing is 'feel', tried to explain it previously, compared to a softer rod a stiffer rod will lack feel until you get used to it, its stiffer, get over it, when you get used to it and start to feel it going back to whatever it was you had before will feel soft and spongy, you didn't get used to it because you didn't know this, so stop trying to pretend you have more experience with these things than you have, its really obvious from this you say.

Shorten your stroke, limit the tip travel, adjust, more positive movements and you will feel it, you are now casting rather than swinging a rod back and forth expecting it to do something for you.

I wonder if the problem you have believing that I know all this and think it's bloody obvious is because you think I use a stick of rhubarb to fish with? I've told you that I use GR50s. They're described as fast rods. But they're general purpose fishing rods, they're not underrated rods like the TCR or Igniter so of course they have feel at short distances too.

 

[bobmiddlepoint]

And yet another contentless reply.

Yes but it has the merit of brevity unlike your contentless posts!

 

[bobmiddlepoint]

They're described as fast rods. But they're general purpose fishing rods, they're not underrated rods like the TCR or Igniter so of course they have feel at short distances too.

Just another little observation here.
The feel is not in the rod but in the hands. Some people have "hands" and some don't. Some will be able to feel a light line on a stiffer rod better than others, it's just the way it is. It is another example of us all being different and being able to get different things out of the same equipment.

The first thing to do if you want to get a better feel of what is going on is to not grip your rod too tightly.

 

[Tangled]

Just another little observation here.
The feel is not in the rod but in the hands. Some people have "hands" and some don't. Some will be able to feel a light line on a stiffer rod better than others, it's just the way it is. It is another example of us all being different and being able to get different things out of the same equipment.

The first thing to do if you want to get a better feel of what is going on is to not grip your rod too tightly.

I don't have a problem feeling what is going on with my own fast fishing rods. When I talk about having no feel I'm talking about short casting a very fast, probably 3 line weight underrated, Sage Igniter. A distance casting tool.

 

[ohanzee]

Yes I know



Oh stop it. I don't want to fish with a rod all day that has no feel at normal fishing distances or will smash a fine tippet. It's no fun. The Igniter is not a rod I want to be roll casting on a small river it was not designed for it. There are better tools for that job.

“ The most demanding conditions require a different kind of tool. Strong head wind? Fish at distance? Bulky rigs? Heavy sink-tips? The IGNITER is tuned to handle the most technical of conditions. Not a rod for the everyday angler, the IGNITER is equipped with a high line speed taper to carry large amounts of line at distance with wind cutting performance. Perfect for streamer fishing with heavy sink tips or covering big water when conditions turn south. If you bring the will, the IGNITER will supply the way.”

And you managed to work it out from the information the manufacturer supplied?

 

[ohanzee]

GAIA “An experienced and competent caster with a wide range of casts”

People only read what they want to read here.

Exactly, and what they read here is naïve statements regarding casting.

Anyway, where we disagree is within the description 'underweighted', for you, a rod designed to cast further(you acknowledge they are) is simply 'underweighted'.

And I(perhaps others) suggest that rather than being simply 'underweighted' they are designed to progressively balance a longer heaver line from its designated AFFTA to a broader range of distance.

We could argue all day about the compromise there, I think with some adjustments the benefits negate it, you don't want to compromise or adjust your stroke, I did once teach people to do this and I recognise the statement.

The two stances are based in how the rod bends at different points, you appear to think of a rod as one compound taper that bends generally to a given weight..and the whole thing can be 'underrated'.

I see the rod being able to be designed to cast different weights at different bending points, these correspond to whatever the intended purpose of the rod is.

 

[bobmiddlepoint]

I don't have a problem feeling what is going on with my own fast fishing rods. When I talk about having no feel I'm talking about short casting a very fast, probably 3 line weight underrated, Sage Igniter. A distance casting tool.

What is your major malfunction?

It’s a distance casting tool so yes it will be harder to feel it bending with short casts. What is the problem with this? It’s not sold as novices alround rod is it? The correct line for it is the one it is designed for and it designed to cast that line at distance. It is not designed to cast a line two or three weights heavier at distance.

 

[Tangled]

Exactly, and what they read here is naïve statements regarding casting.

Anyway, where we disagree is within the description 'underweighted', for you, a rod designed to cast further(you acknowledge they are) is simply 'underweighted'.

And I(perhaps others) suggest that rather than being simply 'underweighted' they are designed to progressively balance a longer heaver line from its designated AFFTA to a broader range of distance.

They're underrated for the AFFTA standard (and yes I know there's no rod standard but..). Just like a RIO Gold is overrated for the AFFTA standard. The only difference is that RIO tell you, and by how much.

We could argue all day about the compromise there, I think with some adjustments the benefits negate it, you don't want to compromise or adjust your stroke, I did once teach people to do this and I recognise the statement.

The two stances are based in how the rod bends at different points, you appear to think of a rod as one compound taper that bends generally to a given weight..and the whole thing can be 'underrated'.

I see the rod being able to be designed to cast different weights at different bending points, these correspond to whatever the intended purpose of the rod is.

So just accept that we disagree, but don't assume that because I disagree I don't understand what you're trying to say.

 

[ohanzee]

What is your major malfunction?

It’s a distance casting tool so yes it will be harder to feel it bending with short casts. What is the problem with this? It’s not sold as novices alround rod is it? The correct line for it is the one it is designed for and it designed to cast that line at distance. It is not designed to cast a line two or three weights heavier at distance.

And if you put a heavier line on you just get a fairly pedestrian 6 weight.

The Tangled theory taken to its natural conclusion is that manufacturers are selling us bog standard 7 weights as high performance or 'distance' 5 weights.

He could reach that conclusion without thinking 'hang on, why don't a put a 5 line on a bog standard 7 weight and find out?'

 

[Tangled]

What is your major malfunction?

None.

It’s a distance casting tool so yes it will be harder to feel it bending with short casts. What is the problem with this? It’s not sold as novices alround rod is it? The correct line for it is the one it is designed for and it designed to cast that line at distance. It is not designed to cast a line two or three weights heavier at distance.

Yes. I know. <sigh>

I thought it was a really nice rod it can chuck a line a mile and a half and yet weighs absolutely nothing at all. I'd buy one like a shot if I had a use for it.

 

[ohanzee]

I'd buy one like a shot if I had a use for it.

What is your main use?

 

[Tangled]

And if you put a heavier line on you just get a fairly pedestrian 6 weight.

I had to go up at 3 line weights to tame it into a 'normal' fishing rod.

The Tangled theory taken to its natural conclusion is that manufacturers are selling us bog standard 7 weights as high performance or 'distance' 5 weights.

Silly

He could reach that conclusion without thinking 'hang on, why don't a put a 5 line on a bog standard 7 weight and find out?'

And you think I haven't done that? Of course you do, because you don't read anything and you make sh1t up.

And you're wrong. The BIG and very real difference between the Ignite and the Greys is that the #5 Igniter, while having the power of nearer an #8, is lighter than my #5 rod. That's how they pull the trick off.