Understanding Carbon Trout Rods

ed_t

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The term 'Special Needs' is indeed a harsh 'blanket' for a wide range of learning experiences - much like when you're invited to the Heart Failure Clinic at your local hospital . . . Heart Function Clinic would be a term more easily digestible!

Without exception, we all have aspects of learning which we find more challenging than others, for some it may be extreme in terms of reading, writing or Social Interaction for others it may relate to the processing of quite complex or diverse information. Some may joyfully encounter the complex and diverse but fail to comprehend or accept the 'simple'.

My research was collated through interviews with those across the 'special needs spectrum'. From those with a diagnosis - ADHD, Dyslexia, Autism, Asperger Syndrome etc. and from low educational capacity to gifted and talented.

The simply expressed outcome from my research was that subsequent to a diagnosis and acknowledgement of a specific 'difficulty' or need, each category was more relaxed in the knowledge that they were not as weird, thick or stupid as they may have been referred to or they thought of themselves. If you like, the acknowledgement gave them a passport to move forwards, it wasn't a set of handcuffs designed to limit their lives. This enabled those that struggled to read and write to embrace strategies and make progress and the gifted and talented to appreciate they could make a 'mistake' or accept challenges where there wasn't a binary answer.
We're all on the spectrum. I was working on site with a lad and spotted him sorting eggs in a tray. Asked him if he was looking for old ones, but no, just "tidying them up". Had to be in symmetrical patterns. Minor OCD he had picked up from his wife who had to have the clothes pegs and clothes colour matched and sequential on the washing line amongst other things.
 

codyarrow

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If you want a syndrome for the forum what about 'Company Director's syndrome'.
There are half a dozen on here that are not used to being called out in their daily lives and transfer this to the forum, with a mis guided belief they are master anglers based on limited experience and reading a few spec sheets. They don't like it when they are called out.
Those of us that have done this long enough can spot the ones on this forum with the really useful knowledge and experience; they tried on other 'understanding' threads to put across valid points and were dismissed. Funnily enough they are not contributing now to the 'understanding' threads.

That said I've no problem with these threads as they are entertaining and have a sneaking respect for Tangle's sheer bloody stubborn streak. Under the premise of 'understanding' though they are all failures as the chairman always misses the question. A newbies still far better off asking in the tackle shop or buying a kit than reading this.
 

lhomme

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There is no shortcut to understanding, no matter how much theoretical knowledge you absorb. One would expect that 30 "odd" years of experience and learning in practice contributes to that understanding, but in this case it clearly didn't. It brought even more confusion, and no amount of quotes by far more knowledgeable men, nor calling them by their first names will obfuscate that lack of proficiency. It may take a while to detect that from what people say on a forum, but sooner or later they're bound to trip over their own words. At the waterside, with a rod in hand, it doesn't take that long to assess their true level of competence and understanding. It's when they start to confuse randomly gathered knowledge with their own imaginative wisdom, desperately trying to prove themselves as some kind of authority on the matter, and then call other, more experienced contributors to the discussion ignorant and shortsighted because they don't accept their accumulated "insights", that this inner voice is telling me to go and fetch the hammer. And if Tangled is still reading this, it's only to protect certain people from hurting themselves that I use it. Gentle healers make stinking wounds.

If someone only uses four fly rods in "a lifetime" of fishing, gathers himself amongst the few hundred that take an "academical" interest in understanding carbon rods and wants to share "his" knowledge with the average angler and the "plebs", I think he should first determine what he means by "an average angler" and on the (objective!) basis of his own experience count himself amongst them. Many "average" anglers spending 30 odd years fly fishing have used many more rods and thus hopefully acquired a refined sense that can't be learned from books or the internet, but is essential in distinguishing properties and understanding different carbon fly rods. Someone who hasn't got that feeling may well try to understand the tools he's using or is struggling with by reading reviews on them, but shouldn't insist that the current qualification system needs a more precise rating, just for the sake of it. Because it won't help him - nor anyone else for that matter- to feel things he hasn't learned to detect for himself in practice. If the rod doesn't talk to you, you'll never understand it.
 
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ohanzee

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Ref your line out the tip, pick it up and cast, that reminds me of another analogy, and a car one that seems apt: start the engine with hand-brake on, put it in first and slowly lift the clutch pedal- find the biting point. Got to know the biting point for a hill start or smooth start. Your rod loading point/correct length of line would seem to be the beginner's starting point.

I think that relates because its slightly removed from the activity, people only remember 10% of a lesson, easy to get overloaded with information at that stage but that would be remembered.

I thought it was going to be the old Loops tip(Loops was an American online magazine bit like an old fashioned Sexyloops but just articles) an old instructor was going fishing with a friend that famously jerky, on the way he pulled off the highway and told him to put his rod tube on the parcel shelf of the car, then pull off without the tube rolling and clanking, then stop without it rolling back.

Best I know is lift and cast and try to make the loop collapse, using half the power each time, after a few casts you arrive at the amount of power you should be using all the time.
 

loxie

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There is no shortcut to understanding, no matter how much theoretical knowledge you absorb. One would expect that 30 "odd" years of experience and learning in practice contributes to that understanding, but in this case it clearly didn't. It brought even more confusion, and no amount of quotes by far more knowledgeable men, nor calling them by their first names will obfuscate that lack of proficiency. It may take a while to detect that from what people say on a forum, but sooner or later they're bound to trip over their own words. At the waterside, with a rod in hand, it doesn't take that long to assess their true level of competence and understanding. It's when they start to confuse randomly gathered knowledge with their own imaginative wisdom, desperately trying to prove themselves as some kind of authority on the matter, and then call other, more experienced contributors to the discussion ignorant and shortsighted because they don't accept their accumulated "insights", that this inner voice is telling me to go and fetch the hammer. And if Tangled is still reading this, it's only to protect certain people from hurting themselves that I use it. Gentle healers make stinking wounds.

If someone only uses four fly rods in "a lifetime" of fishing, gathers himself amongst the few hundred that take an "academical" interest in understanding carbon rods and wants to share "his" knowledge with the average angler and the "plebs", I think he should first determine what he means by "an average angler" and on the (objective!) basis of his own experience count himself amongst them. Many "average" anglers spending 30 odd years fly fishing have used many more rods and thus hopefully acquired a refined sense that can't be learned from books or the internet, but is essential in distinguishing properties and understanding different carbon fly rods. Someone who hasn't got that feeling may well try to understand the tools he's using or is struggling with by reading reviews on them, but shouldn't insist that the current qualification system needs a more precise rating, just for the sake of it. Because it won't help him - nor anyone else for that matter- to feel things he hasn't learned to detect for himself in practice. If the rod doesn't talk to you, you'll never understand it.
And that is the very best post on this thread!
 

LukeNZ

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And that is the very best post on this thread!

Tangled is very far from expert at any aspect of the fly fishing craft, and by engaging with a majority who are clearly more advanced and skilled in every aspect than he; he should be listening rather than talking: and especially not pitching himself as an authority...

Comes across as a not especially good, beginner.

🙃
 

ohanzee

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Tangled is very far from expert at any aspect of the fly fishing craft, and by engaging with a majority who are clearly more advanced and skilled in every aspect than he; he should be listening rather than talking: and especially not pitching himself as an authority...

Comes across as a not especially good, beginner.

🙃

To be fair he doesn't make claims of expertise, rather he represents the 'average', and wants the average fly fisher to be able to make better choices, a noble quest, but where it always seems to go wrong is a pathological issue with being swindled by manufacturers who are somehow in on a wholesale con.
 

LukeNZ

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To be fair he doesn't make claims of expertise, rather he represents the 'average', and wants the average fly fisher to be able to make better choices, a noble quest, but where it always seems to go wrong is a pathological issue with being swindled by manufacturers who are somehow in on a wholesale con.

A good beginner would already know that...

Are the average fly fisherman making poor choices, or is that just his suggestion to create a platform for him to occupy...

The average fly fisherman would be much better off out there actually fishing, and earning their experience, rather than sitting around reading all that understanding nonsense from someone that will unlikely (after all this time), ever eclipse average...

🙃
 
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Tangled

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I see the playground bullies are still preoccupied.

Meanwhile, I think I've finally got to the end of road of this 'understanding' I've made a few updates and edits in the last couple days to include some bit's and pieces I thought it needed.

I'm still not totally happy with the section on rod action so I'll probably return to it at some point.

If there any grown ups still in left in the room, I be grateful if you could now read the whole thing again and let me know of any corrections.

And for the children here, I won't be responding unless you can behave yourselves. Try to play nicely.
 

PaulD

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magpie-mirror.jpg
 

bobmiddlepoint

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I see the playground bullies are still preoccupied.

Meanwhile, I think I've finally got to the end of road of this 'understanding' I've made a few updates and edits in the last couple days to include some bit's and pieces I thought it needed.

I'm still not totally happy with the section on rod action so I'll probably return to it at some point.

If there any grown ups still in left in the room, I be grateful if you could now read the whole thing again and let me know of any corrections.

And for the children here, I won't be responding unless you can behave yourselves. Try to play nicely.

The world's shortest road?
 

LukeNZ

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@Tangled

Stonewalling much: and you still haven’t clarified your notion of ‘normal casting range’?

What distance is normal casting range?
 
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LukeNZ

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The world's shortest road?

....certainly not The Road Less Traveled (M. Scott Peck).

He started quite profoundly from memory.. something like; “Life is difficult” and got around to, “Human beings are poor examiners, subject to superstition, bias, prejudice, and a PROFOUND tendency to see what they want to see rather than what is really there.”

Knew a thing or two, that bloke...!

🙃
 

lhomme

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I see the playground bullies are still preoccupied.

Meanwhile, I think I've finally got to the end of road of this 'understanding' I've made a few updates and edits in the last couple days to include some bit's and pieces I thought it needed.

I'm still not totally happy with the section on rod action so I'll probably return to it at some point.

If there any grown ups still in left in the room, I be grateful if you could now read the whole thing again and let me know of any corrections.

And for the children here, I won't be responding unless you can behave yourselves. Try to play nicely.
Your predictability factor has just quadrupled. We're the children and the bullies, you're the grown up and you won't be responding, but the urge to profile yourself is too strong to resist. So you do respond, with veiled insults to people questioning your integrity with your own words in hand. You can't even keep your word.

There you are with your assertions without knowledge or evidence again, I suspect my 30 odd years of diverse and destination fly fishing is far more than the majority of anglers.
These are your words and if that isn't a claim to "expertise", I don't know what is. And it is you, by posting other stories on other threads, who casts doubts on your own assertion. Don't blame others for pointing that out, it's there for everyone to read. And for the last time, I didn't put you in this mess, Tangled, you did.
 

LukeNZ

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Tangled, please explain what the normal casting distance is, to which you refer: it seems understanding that, may be key to your dilemma..?

You raised the notion to its existence, yet continue to ignore that direct question!

Do you fear the pain of learning?

Maybe you do need to read Scotty Peck after all? He will certainly help you with that.

🙃
 

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