Understanding Carbon Trout Rods

ohanzee

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I don't think it possible to explain it too you. 20 or 30 times really should have been enough.

You are right, it's not enough, you don't have a problem for the solution you still don't have, if you did by now we would be going 'hey this works better'.
 

LukeNZ

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Bit nervous about dipping into this very contentious thread, and I did enjoy the opening post very much.
Anyway, as a reservoir fisherman with no obstuctions behind me, I can normally cast a full 30 yard line, conditions prevailing. My favourite rod was a Shakespeare President 10ft, #6/7 and with a WF6, one haul saw backing most times. Now I am finding two hauls required to achieve distance,l .....Is it I'm getting old or is it the tackle. No worries from me, two hauls still gets me there when I need it.
But the reason I am posting is that in many situations a rod is not just a casting tool but I expect it to perform in other situations, line control and lifting power (sorry).
Out on the Ressies, I need a modicum of strength when fishing deep with DI7/8, and seriously deep (DI8/DI7 connected), a predator rod #10.
Off the Florida Keys, sometimes a #12 did not have the power to lift big sulking fish off the bottom and I had to handline the fish up to recommence the fight, the test curve though strong was not enough.
I feel that any rod purchased etc should be able to satisfy the needs of the Angler, be it casting, control of line/ lure and fighting ability of species pursued.
Getting out of here now, before I receive incoming
Cheers to All, Joe
So the rod lacked the stiffness or rigidity, to resist the power you needed to apply; or was hand-lining the result of the rod not having enough power...? 🤔

🙃
 

karlsson

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You been out for a few beers Lasse?
Nope, just a reply to those who have wet dreams about single casting weight on their flyrods... they are out there, and have got worse implications than people see.. so do you think the warrenty holds with a DT5 or not?

Cheers
Lasse
 

ohanzee

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Nope, just a reply to those who have wet dreams about single casting weight on their flyrods... they are out there, and have got worse implications than people see.. so do you think the warrenty holds with a DT5 or not?

Cheers
Lasse

Do they break if you use the wrong line?

Actually, who asks what line you were using in a warranty claim??
 

LukeNZ

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If you tried to address the proposition put to you, you might actually begin to learn something. But you're just wasting electrons trying to make this personal.
Not an attack on you personally, just the waffle you are posting.

Your desire to find a solution for a problem that doesn't exist for single hand carbon trout rods, specifically...?

Thus, you continue to repeatedly confirm that you have no real, and/or practical understanding of this subject.
🙃
 

aenoon

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Linlithgow, Scotland and anywhere i can wet a line
Nope, just a reply to those who have wet dreams about single casting weight on their flyrods... they are out there, and have got worse implications than people see.. so do you think the warrenty holds with a DT5 or not?

Cheers
Lasse
The answer would be of course, as warranties go! Yo were using a #5, ok you can put it all out and it becomes an #8.! but warranty says 5 you are using 5 who is to say otherwise?
 

JoeOh

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So the rod lacked the stiffness or rigidity, to resist the power you needed to apply; or was hand-lining the result of the rod not having enough power...? 🤔

🙃
Hi Luke, the Sage #12 completely lacked the stiffness. rigidty and power to lift treble figure Shark off the bottom.
It was more pointing the rod down vertically, hauling up a bit, and getting line on the reel. All good fun. God knows what a big Tuna must be like !
But as I said earlier, head down and thanks for the tease
Cheers JoeOh
 

Tangled

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Not an attack on you personally, just the waffle you are posting.
You still have no idea what I'm talking about do you? Not a clue.

You somehow think it's something to do with me and what I do or can't do.

Take a deep breath and concentrate really hard. When a line is 3 times overweight it's got nothing to do with how you or I personally think about it, it's not personal, it's just a measured, objective weight. Fact. Deal with it.
 

ed_t

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So salmon rods, spinning rods and beach casting rods show a recommended weight and you say that fly rods are not a special case yet they don't need to show a recommended weight? I think you're just being stubborn now.

If fly lines stuck to their standard and if fly rods had not developed beyond their original purpose, the AFTTA code would be fine, but they don't and they haven't. So, just like the salmon line rating and rod weightings changed, fly rods need to change too.
What would you put on a 5#?
9.1 g. That's the 5# at 30'
4.5-18g. That's 15' of 5# to 60' of 5# DT.
4.5- 27g. That's 15' of 5# to 90' of DT.

All valid, all castable, all covered by... 5#.

Why does the system need complicating?
 

Tangled

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What would you put on a 5#?
9.1 g. That's the 5# at 30'
4.5-18g. That's 15' of 5# to 60' of 5# DT.
4.5- 27g. That's 15' of 5# to 90' of DT.

All valid, all castable, all covered by... 5#.

Why does the system need complicating?
Why stop there? What is the point of giving lines weights at all?
 

codyarrow

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Take a deep breath and concentrate really hard. When a line is 3 times overweight it's got nothing to do with how you or I personally think about it, it's not personal, it's just a measured, objective weight. Fact. Deal with it.
Have you wrote to the manufacturer about this yet?

This problem you have will not be solved. Change to weight measure and the legally un obliged manufacturers will bamboozle you by measuring the line weight at different points and knock out a load of tosh marketing blurb with a zippy word as to why, making it even more difficult to match a rod and line. When all manufacturers are at it and you will be worse off than before. It is after all in their interest to sell you more lines.

Present system may have some fallibility but be careful what you wish for.
 

ohanzee

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Why stop there? What is the point of giving lines weights at all?

Why not just use the line recommended for the rod, until you find one that doesn't work, then you will have a reason to get in a tizz about it :)
 

PaulD

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These are the first three sentences of this thread, now some 92 pages and 1833 posts long.
Understanding Rods

My Christmas present to the forum. Careful how you unwrap it.

This understanding is about modern, single-handed, carbon fly rods.
It’s very much ultracrepidarian, but maybe you can help me by responding in the thread below.
'Ultracrepidarian' means 'someone in the habit of giving advice on matters he knows nothing about.' Do we really need 92 pages to know this?
 

Tangled

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Why not just use the line recommended for the rod, until you find one that doesn't work,
Why not accept that a rod manufacturer might recommend a #5 weight line for their rod but the #5 weight line that you buy might actually be a #7?

Maybe accept that some rods labelled #5 are actually #7 that require 60' of that #5 line out to really work as intended.

Surely that's not too hard for you to grasp? Or is it? Sorry, don't answer, I know it's too hard for you.
 

LukeNZ

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You still have no idea what I'm talking about do you? Not a clue.

You somehow think it's something to do with me and what I do or can't do.

Take a deep breath and concentrate really hard. When a line is 3 times overweight it's got nothing to do with how you or I personally think about it, it's not personal, it's just a measured, objective weight. Fact. Deal with it.
I think you have no idea.

When a line manufacturer designs, makes, and markets a line for a given purpose, and he determines the rod # (loading) that meets his line # (load), to deliver the performance charechteriistic that his line is intended deliver; it is on basis of that line is being used on the rod # designated on the line packaging. #5 line = #5 rod.

The sctual weight of the #5 line is irrelevant - the manufacturers intention is that his #5 line needs to be used on a #5 rod, to perform as marketed.

If you choose to use the line on some other # rod and in any other way that is fine too, but it may likely deliver different feel and performance than its design intention - but may still suit you.

You (anyone) can freely put any line on any rod they wish if they like how it feels.

But the crux for you is, that line manufacturers are making lines to load trout rods by varying density, weight, profile, materials and marketing to appeal to fly fishers sense of what they might like their #5 rod to feel like. Rather than rigidly conform to an accuracy ideal.

Essentially, you are suggesting a body takes control over manufacturers freedom to be creative within each rod # rating, and dictate to them how a rod must perform with a #5 line... surely you can see the silliness of that; as in order to do that, all #5 rods must perform identically too?

Generally, provided you don't overload your rod with your chosen line choice, it is fair to say that whatever # line you put on your #5 rod does it for you - then that is the right line for you.

If on the other hand you are happy for the line manufacturer to tell you what is right for you, or you like what the manufacturers marketing says a line will fo for you; then you need go no further than select his #5 line for your #5 rod.

🙃
 
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ed_t

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Why stop there? What is the point of giving lines weights at all?
Because it is what the manufacturer thinks is optimum for the weight the rod can handle.

2 or 3 characters x# to xx# describes a range of weights at each interval.

The complicated spinning and beach casting system of "a to b" oz or grammes adds nothing more. The DH "xxx"head weight adds nothing more. The beach or spinning single weight in grammes or oz adds nothing more.

All rods can cast a range of weights, possess no power, and are dependent on the user's ability.

Why go on a crusade from there?

You want more answers... there aren't.

Perhaps you want a golf style system where you go to a video and computer simulation casting booth to find what is right for the individual.

There's the rub- every individual will be different with every rod and every line put on every rod regardless of what numbers are on either.
 

ohanzee

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Why not accept that a rod manufacturer might recommend a #5 weight line for their rod but the #5 weight line that you buy might actually be a #7?

Maybe accept that some rods labelled #5 are actually #7 that require 60' of that #5 line out to really work as intended.

I think there is only one person here unable to accept it.

And unable to accept that everyone else understood it already.
 

LukeNZ

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Because it is what the manufacturer thinks is optimum for the weight the rod can handle.

2 or 3 characters x# to xx# describes a range of weights at each interval.

The complicated spinning and beach casting system of "a to b" oz or grammes adds nothing more. The DH "xxx"head weight adds nothing more. The beach or spinning single weight in grammes or oz adds nothing more.

All rods can cast a range of weights, possess no power, and are dependent on the user's ability.

Why go on a crusade from there?

You want more answers... there aren't.

Perhaps you want a golf style system where you go to a video and computer simulation casting booth to find what is right for the individual.

There's the rub- every individual will be different with every rod and every line put on every rod regardless of what numbers are on either.
Golf handicap system to equalise fishermen.

If you are casting bellow scratch, your line # will be less than rod #.

If you are casting at scratch then you line # will be the same as rod #

if you are above scratch then your handicap will determine a line # above your rod #

🙃
 
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