Understanding Fly Line to Leader Connections

speytime

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So far I've been unable to properly site the claim that a tapered leader transfers the energy of the cast in the most efficient way. I'm not doubting it, I'd just like to see and be able to quote an authoritative source and provide an explanation of what's happening with the energy transfer.
The link opens at chapter 4 leaders.
 

caeran

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An anology that is totally removed from delicate fly fishing but could explain velocity and the different rates of acceleration and deceleration

Stand sideways to a caterpillar digger
The machine is moving forward at say 10 mph

Where the track is in contact with the surface of the ground it is stationary and is inert , contains no energy

But the section of track above is still connected to the track at the bottom
But is travelling faster than 10mph as it has to in order to get ready to lay down in front of the digger and in doing so it loses velocity and energy
Kinetic energy , viscous energy and static all in one system


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tangled

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The link opens at chapter 4 leaders.

Thanks that's the sort of thing I'm after - authoritative but also understandable. It also brings up the idea of hinging that I need to include.

It strikes me - without any evidence at all - that a loop to loop connection could be a better source of hinging than almost any other method.
 

original cormorant

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PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE

One thing at a time Tangled you started this thread as
Understanding Fly Line to Leader Connections

If you want one on leaders fine - next time ok?
 

tangled

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PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE

One thing at a time Tangled you started this thread as
Understanding Fly Line to Leader Connections

If you want one on leaders fine - next time ok?

Yup, that's exactly what I'm doing. But we have to touch on why one connection may be better than another and that is going to include energy transfer - including hinging effects and why fly lines and leaders have tapers.
 

original cormorant

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I understand the principle or theory of hinging, but I'm oblivious to its effect on casting.
Can anyone explain, would make you think someone's setup was hinging?
To take an extreme example if you had a thick end to the flyline and a very thin leader butt the leader wouldn't catch up with and be turned over in a smooth arc when casting -I know what I mean but I'm not sure if I can explain it properly. One of the GAIA guys will know how to explain it.

Attempting to get a smooth transition from flyline to leader is only in part about the means of connection. In my view it's mainly about the design of the leader, not about how the leader is attached to the flyline.

I can see that a badly built and installed braided loop might lead to a floppy bit that allowed hingeing. I can also see that attaching the leader loop to loop by having a double section of leader means that the leader butt is closer in firmness and diameter to the end of the flyline so will aid turnover. I can see also that attaching a leader ring to the end of the fly line to attach the leader to may lead to hingeing.
 

JCP

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Have to allow some concession regarding connection being fit for purpose not withstanding it may well not be the ultimate scientifically proven method of connecting a leader to a fly line.

JP
 

tangled

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I understand the principle or theory of hinging, but I'm oblivious to its effect on casting.
Can anyone explain, would make you think someone's setup was hinging?

According to the book you just showed, us hinging degrades energy transfer down the line and in the worse cases causes a leader collapse.
 

tangled

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Have to allow some concession regarding connection being fit for purpose not withstanding it may well not be the ultimate scientifically proven method of connecting a leader to a fly line.

JP
I agree. I often fish with a 9’ level leader and a loop-to-loop connection - if I'm fishing three spiders for example - and so long as I'm not trying to break a personal best casting record I can routinely turn it over ok.

I do prefer a needle knotted half taper though, about 6’. After that I don't care much what I'm adding so long as it's not a wider diameter.
 
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caeran

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Hinging
When the “ energy “ in the wave travelling along the main fly line reaches the joint between line and the leader and the energy is not transferred smoothly into and along the leader.
The leader behaves erratically and can whip up into the air or flop onto the water in a heap????


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tangled

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I don't know about 'whip up into the air', I think the idea is that if the connection is almost unconnected - able to flop around independently of the fly line - energy isn't transferred at all and the leader just drops out of the air. You can imagine that there's a gradient of energy transfer between that silly extreme and a very good connection. That's my current take on it anyway.
 
G

GEK79

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Knot making is but a small part of leader to fly line connections, pretied and preformed loops don't even require the knowledge to tie them. They are made to make it easier for the anglers, especially for those who don't bother to think about it any further. Knowing all the different means to make the connection and how to make them yourself are but the first steps, if your aim is to understand them you've got a lot of fieldwork to do and you'll be adjusting your OP for quite some time. Before you know it you'll have to bring in aerodynamics, inertia and gravity to get to the bottom of it. And we haven't even begun about adjusting casting strokes, acceleration and ways of delivery to counter the disadvantages certain connections present you with. It's a question of balance you can only solve by trial and error and then it should be remembered experiences are personal and may differ from your own opinion or even contradict it. It's not easy to take into account things you don't believe in yourself or have preconceived notions about. That's what is making it hard to come up with a general consensus on a divers and complicated subject. I've seen it happen before. But good luck anyway with the concept, it's a noble one and may help anyone prepared to go through the whole learning process.
having followed this thread with it being very helpful to me your post above has completely baffled me..
 

easker1

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lot of info there but I will continue to fish the way I have always done , cheers , easker1
 
G

GEK79

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In what sense?
Aerodynamics physics possibly claiming that because I can't tie knits and loops that I don't care as much about the sport as you as we all have opinions and ideas I'm glad but after reading your post I'm more confused than I was. Possibly I'm misunderstanding the way you have written your reply
Gary
 

lhomme

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Aerodynamics physics possibly claiming that because I can't tie knits and loops that I don't care as much about the sport as you as we all have opinions and ideas I'm glad but after reading your post I'm more confused than I was. Possibly I'm misunderstanding the way you have written your reply
Gary
You probably did, you shouldn't take a general observation as a personal accusation. For all I know you may be aiming at going through the whole learning process to make up your own mind, as I did. All for the better, I should say. Practice remains the best teacher.
 

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