Understanding Fly Lines

[original cormorant]

I say that I'm just talking about trout - for the moment anyway

I think you said mainly single handed trout, but even so I think it's necessary to identify that there are lines that aren't suitable for trout. ie to spell out that there are spey skagit saltwater and tropical lines (and maybe others). I understand that single handed spey lines are getting popular.

 

[tangled]

I've just had a look at Northern Sport Fishing's accounts on Companies House. The company is tiny and looks to be in a lot of trouble to me.

 

[glueman]

A flyfishing beginner picks up a catalogue turns to the 6 pages on lines then shuts catalogue and doesn't bother. It is bewildering

 

[GEK79]

A flyfishing beginner picks up a catalogue turns to the 6 pages on lines then shuts catalogue and doesn't bother. It is bewildering

Advice and trial and error..

 

[original cormorant]

I've just had a look at Northern Sport Fishing's accounts on Companies House. The company is tiny and looks to be in a lot of trouble to me.

There was a thread recently reviving the NS fake lines court case and a posting on it said that after the case in which a director of the company was jailed UK production had been suspended (?temporary or permanent) and switched to their Canada plant. Perhaps that's why the UK accounts look weak.
The two main prosecution witnesses were Rio (pure faking but not honest copying like mcatch) and Snowbee whose lines were/are made by NS. Loop also figured in the case.

 

[glueman]

Advice and trial and error..

That could work out rather expensive when some lines are closing £100. Over the years I have used an assortment of makes they all to me seem very much a muchness

 

[original cormorant]

A flyfishing beginner picks up a catalogue turns to the 6 pages on lines then shuts catalogue and doesn't bother. It is bewildering

I just picked up the Sportfish catalogue and there are 14 pages - including a Beginners Guide to single handed lines by Simon Gawesworth which may well be on the website and cut and pasteable or to link to.

There are 4 Rio lines listed at £120

 

[tangled]

There was a thread recently reviving the NS fake lines court case and a posting on it said that after the case in which a director of the company was jailed UK production had been suspended (?temporary or permanent) and switched to their Canada plant. Perhaps that's why the UK accounts look weak.
The two main prosecution witnesses were Rio (pure faking but not honest copying like mcatch) and Snowbee whose lines were/are made by NS. Loop also figured in the case.

That would make sense Richard Tramar was 'terminated' ie not just resigned last year. Their balance sheet is £170k in the red.

Not that you'd know any of that from their web site!

I don't think we can any longer call it a UK company :-(

 

[original cormorant]

I don't think we can any longer call it a UK company :-(

That could be premature they could still re-start UK production with a new management team (or maybe already have).

 

[GEK79]

That would make sense Richard Tramar was 'terminated' ie not just resigned last year. Their balance sheet is £170k in the red.

Not that you'd know any of that from their web site!

I don't think we can any longer call it a UK company :-(

Sad times.. But blur the lines and things tend to go wrong.

 

[tangled]

That could be premature they could still re-start UK production with a new management team (or maybe already have).

Maybe, but with that balance sheet I'd be talking to the receivers and thinking about a phoenix...

 

[tangled]

On another note. Does anyone have a hot tip about how to remember what line you have on what spool?

Some reels have indicators but most seem not too. I've also seen wide elastic rings that hold the line in place and have WF 5 F written on them - are they homemade?

 

[3lbgrayling]

Some reels have indicators but most seem not too. I've also seen wide elastic rings that hold the line in place and have WF 5 F written on them - are they homemade?

Yes.mostly, but you can buy them as spool tenders.

Jim

 

[morayfisher]

That's a really interesting question, it opens up all sorts of issues. I've just added a RIO video were they describe how little actual weight difference there is between the weights - just 20g (the weight of a business card) between a #5 and a #6. You'd get more discrepancy by having a foot of line more or less outside your rod tip.

So how much does line weight really matter?

Can you give me more on this?

Here’s a link to a short Facebook video by Sunray.

Sunray on Facebook Watch

Why is head length so important in fly line design? Why is it only Sunray that designs each weight of line within a range as a stand alone product,...

fb.watch

Doesn’t make much sense what he says in it but he did a long piece during lockdown where he reckons a wf head length of 3.5 to 4 times the rod length is optimal.
I’ve also seen him argue that rating a (wf) line by measuring the first 30’ of the head doesn’t make sense which seems reasonable to me.
Surely the weight of the whole head, whatever its length is a better measure.
Here’s another link to a piece about head lengths and weights on the Sunray website.

5 problems with fly line design and the broken AFTM system.

Fly line design has been lacking for over 30 years starting with the outdated AFTM system. Why don't companies change their head length in single hand ranges? Wy do companies only list the weight of the first 30' of a line? All these issues are questioned by designer Tom Bell in this modern...

sunrayflyfish.com

Not that I’m a great Sunray fan or anything, just reading what’s out there.

 

[James9118]

Here’s a link to a short Facebook video by Sunray.

If this thread is going to start quoting the junkie clown as an authority on fly lines then it will go down hill pretty quickly.

Everything Sunray puts out is marketing hype, from the ratio of head length to rod length nonsense to the whole dismissal of the AFFTA line weight system (can we please stop mentioning AFTMA - they ceased to be over a decade ago?) just so they can justify putting a #7 line in a box that says #5 on it.

On that subject, if Sunray don't 'believe' in the AFFTA weight nomenclature then why the hell do the use it on their website, i.e. you select your line purchase via the AFFTA rating. Just because they write #5 on the box don't kid yourself that you're fishing a #5 - it's a #7!

Don't get me started on his view that orange lines cast cr@p - the 'physics' he reels out is straight from cloud cuckoo land.

All that said, I do admire Sunray - they're marketing geniuses, selling overweight shooting heads to people who don't know (or can't tell) better.

James

 

[morayfisher]

On another note. Does anyone have a hot tip about how to remember what line you have on what spool?

Some reels have indicators but most seem not too. I've also seen wide elastic rings that hold the line in place and have WF 5 F written on them - are they homemade?

I bought something like these. White Velcro cable ties in a suitable length. Write on them with a fine marker pen.

VELCRO® Brand Cable Ties One Wrap Double Sided Straps 20mmx200mm White 10 Pieces: Amazon.co.uk: DIY & Tools

Shop VELCRO® Brand Cable Ties One Wrap Double Sided Straps 20mmx200mm White 10 Pieces. Free delivery on eligible orders of £20 or more.

www.amazon.co.uk

 

[morayfisher]

If this thread is going to start quoting the junkie clown as an authority on fly lines then it will go down hill pretty quickly.

Everything Sunray puts out is marketing hype, from the ratio of head length to rod length nonsense to the whole dismissal of the AFFTA line weight system (can we please stop mentioning AFTMA - they ceased to be over a decade ago?) just so they can justify putting a #7 line in a box that says #5 on it.

On that subject, if Sunray don't 'believe' in the AFFTA weight nomenclature then why the hell do the use it on their website, i.e. you select your line purchase via the AFFTA rating. Just because they write #5 on the box don't kid yourself that you're fishing a #5 - it's a #7!

Don't get me started on his view that orange lines cast cr@p - the 'physics' he reels out is straight from cloud cuckoo land.

All that said, I do admire Sunray - they're marketing geniuses, selling overweight shooting heads to people who don't know (or can't tell) better.

James

Hi James,
I did add that I was not a Sunray fan but it’s all information. Something for reasoned discussion, just calling the guy a junkie clown isn’t helpful here imho.

 

[PaulD]

I've just added a RIO video were they describe how little actual weight difference there is between the weights - just 20g (the weight of a business card) between a #5 and a #6. You'd get more discrepancy by having a foot of line more or less outside your rod tip.

The 'standard' weight of the measured 30ft of an AFTM 6 is 10.42g - a 5wt, 9.07g - a difference of 0.35g.
An average business card weighs around 2.5g. Considerably different.

 

[morayfisher]

The 'standard' weight of the measured 30ft of an AFTM 6 is 10.42g - a 5wt, 9.07g - a difference of 0.35g.
An average business card weighs around 2.5g. Considerably different.

Maths slightly off there. The difference is 1.35g

 

[James9118]

Hi James,
I did add that I was not a Sunray fan but it’s all information. Something for reasoned discussion, just calling the guy a junkie clown isn’t helpful here imho.

Hi,

To be fair I didn't just call him a junkie clown - I did expand a bit I've also written my findings on a Sunray line that I cut up and measured on here somewhere - fair to say he hadn't overturned Archimedes density principle that has held firm for 2000 years, despite his claims to have done so.

James