Understanding Fly Lines

ohanzee

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There are large and obvious differences in line profile between a shooting head line and a spey line. There are fishing and casting reasons for them.

But I'm not going over it again simply because you prefer to misunderstand what is being said.

I don't misunderstand anything, it's waffle, rods can't tell the difference between the head of a shooting head and the head of anything else.

You randomly saying something right now doesn't fix it.
 

Tangled

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I don't misunderstand anything, it's waffle,
There you go again, not reading and not understanding.
rods can't tell the difference between the head of a shooting head and the head of anything else.
I'm sure you didn't want to say something as dumb as that reads. I'll give you a chance to explain or fix it.
You randomly saying something right now doesn't fix it.
Read what I've written, you'll see that I said that 'random' thing several times. I even gave you pictures.

But you're not actually interested, all you want to do is bicker pointlessly.
 

ohanzee

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There you go again, not reading and not understanding.

I'm sure you didn't want to say something as dumb as that reads. I'll give you a chance to explain or fix it.

Read what I've written, you'll see that I said that 'random' thing several times. I even gave you pictures.

But you're not actually interested, all you want to do is bicker pointlessly.

I'm just pointing it out, as other have, you can take it or leave it, makes no difference to me.
 

Tangled

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I'm just pointing it out, as other have, you can take it or leave it, makes no difference to me.
I'm not letting you leave that behind, "rods can't tell the difference between the head of a shooting head and the head of anything else." You can't possibly mean that line profiles don't affect how a rod is able to cast them... (Please don't say that rods can't do anything without the caster - that's assumed.)
 

ohanzee

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I'm not letting you leave that behind, "rods can't tell the difference between the head of a shooting head and the head of anything else." You can't possibly mean that line profiles don't affect how a rod is able to cast them... (Please don't say that rods can't do anything without the caster - that's assumed.)

A rod is a hollow carbon tube it doesn't decide all the stuff you seem to think, two hands or one it's still a hollow tube, and the head of a shooting head is the head of a line, it's the same thing.
 

Tangled

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A rod is a hollow carbon tube it doesn't decide all the stuff you seem to think, two hands or one it's still a hollow tube, and the head of a shooting head is the head of a line, it's the same thing.
No sh1t Sherlock, stuff is made of stuff. You appear to be saying that how rods and lines are made makes no difference to how they perform.

I suspect you don't mean that so stop digging or properly explain what you do mean.
 

lhomme

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Has Tangled figured out how to roll cast a shooting head yet? Or is he still convinced it's not doable? Just asking to check his progression on understanding things.
 

Vintage Badger

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Has Tangled figured out how to roll cast a shooting head yet? Or is he still convinced it's not doable? Just asking to check his progression on understanding things.
Roll casting (a Spey cast is simply a roll cast with a change of direction) with a shooting head and a single handed rod and a big, fluffy fly? Oh yes.

 

ohanzee

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Has Tangled figured out how to roll cast a shooting head yet? Or is he still convinced it's not doable? Just asking to check his progression on understanding things.

I once watched Klaus Frimor demonstrate the Loop multi head system when it came out, it had been around in salmon fishing for a long time so to be fair I probably had similar views to Tangled at the time, he used the 5 version and made a big deal about using a dry fly with the hook cut off(he cast over the spectators)
This one demo would answer pretty much all of Tangled's points, the Loop multi head system is a pseudo shooting head system, one running line and a set of interchangeable heads for different applications, colour coded different lengths and weights, I think the 5 weight set is called 'trout'.

Anyways, he did some spey casts and presented his 'dry fly'(spey casting a dry fly was a bit of a thing at the time, some said it was the work of the devil) basically he was trying to show that it was the same as any other floating line, no compromise, and then proceeded to cast it it's full length, which he did with no effort whatsoever, 100' or so over the audience, he is one of the most elegant casters I know and made it look like buttering toast.

The compromise is you can't mend the running line so not much use on a river, but then you wouldn't need to cast 100' on a river and you wouldn't have the back cast space anyway, my interest was inventing new spey casts at the time(more work of the devil) and things like getting a vodoo cast or snap z to go 80' playing only with the head, I figured if it can do that it was the holy grail, I lost about a year of my life to that obsession only to discover that it's no different to any other line with the same head configuration and Klaus Frimor is the best salesman I ever saw:)
 

lhomme

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Natural born caster, he would have thrown in an aerial mend if you asked him. Provided it's a coated running line, only an adjustment in the lateral amplitude is needed. It's easier with a double hander, and it's a common practice in salmon fishing, but definitely has an effect on the presentation of dries and nymphs with a single hander too, especially on rivers. It's the ultimate finesse required to make the perfect cast, the final touch that completes it. When we're distance casting the difference is in the way we cast, but when we're fishing it's the way we lay it on the water that is far more important. Aerial line control is the calligraphy of casting. And as you know, there are many books about calligraphy, but only practice makes perfect. ;)
 

ohanzee

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Aerial line control is the calligraphy of casting.

That is poetic and very apt, the first time I saw a snap z, proper Gunter Feuerstein style it was exactly like drawing a slow motion line in the air, incidentally, one of the most efficient and useful dry fly casts invented, apologies for the geek diversion but I get moist over a well executed aerial spey set up :D
 

lhomme

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That is poetic and very apt, the first time I saw a snap z, proper Gunter Feuerstein style it was exactly like drawing a slow motion line in the air, incidentally, one of the most efficient and useful dry fly casts invented, apologies for the geek diversion but I get moist over a well executed aerial spey set up :D
A mate spent an hour in a Russian river trying to snap the fly out of the air as he had seen me doing. Control became routine through practice, and thoughts could be focused on more important things. :whistle:
 

ohanzee

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A mate spent an hour in a Russian river trying to snap the fly out of the air as he had seen me doing. Control became routine through practice, and thoughts could be focused on more important things. :whistle:

To catch in the hand? absolutely the most important casting movement to perfect, to look cool :)
 

ed_t

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A mate spent an hour in a Russian river trying to snap the fly out of the air as he had seen me doing. Control became routine through practice, and thoughts could be focused on more important things. :whistle:
I knew you were a rooskie.
 

lhomme

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To catch in the hand? absolutely the most important casting movement to perfect, to look cool :)
It's a time and effort saving practice if you don't want to fiddle around with stripping in line and then getting setup again to cast. How many casts do you make on an average fishing day? Nothing is more frustrating than trying to catch a salmon with the wing of a fly wrapped around the hook. This usually happens when you force the cast or add a (late) directional twist, but once you're in the flow you only need to check from time to time. Shooting heads only touched the rod rings when a fish came in. I learned to spey cast with a 68' head spey line, and I'm glad I did, it made line control with shorter heads so much easier.
 
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ohanzee

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It's a time and effort saving practice if you don't want to fiddle around with stripping in line and then getting setup again to cast.

In many ways that one small movement tells us more about understanding fly lines than all the information you can ever collect.

Technically I think it could be the most efficient movement in producing the most energy from the least input, it's also absolute proof that the highest level of skill in casting results in looking cool :D
 

lhomme

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In many ways that one small movement tells us more about understanding fly lines than all the information you can ever collect.

Technically I think it could be the most efficient movement in producing the most energy from the least input, it's also absolute proof that the highest level of skill in casting results in looking cool :D
Well it surprised me my mate got so excited over it, generally you do this without thought, it becomes a habit and you know how to make the line fall from above, come straight at you, or sideways from the left or right. It's subtle adjustments in the lift and the flick and playing with the wind, probably not even noticed by a random onlooker, but eventually done intuitively. The thing is many people don't realise how much practice it took to get to that "nonchalant" stage. It may look easy, but nothing is what it seems. ;)
 
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ohanzee

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Well it surprised me my mate got so excited over it, generally you do this without thought, it becomes a habit and you know how to make the line fall from above, come straight at you, or sideways from the left or right. It's subtle adjustments in the lift and the flick and playing with the wind, probably not even noticed by a random onlooker, but eventually done intuitively. The thing is many people don't realise how much practice it took to get to that "nonchalant" stage. It may look easy, but nothing is what it seems. ;)

Another seemingly hard thing that comes from lots of practice is hearing wind knots, this amazes beginners but they have just never used that sense in terms of casting, it's really just a slight change in the sound the leader makes.
 
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