Understanding Mono

ed_t

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 21, 2014
Messages
3,985
Not knowing the material pretty much ends the discussion as you can't even say that MunchoMono is PA 6/66 so it is impervious to UV, or whatever.
You're off on your arbitrary statements again. If you read the link and the bit about hydrolysis you would see it explains that condensation polymers that evolve water during polymerisation are intrinsically susceptible.

You've already twigged nylon is a condensation polymer- guess what is condenses?
 

tangled

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 28, 2015
Messages
4,019
You're off on your arbitrary statements again. If you read the link and the bit about hydrolysis you would see it explains that condensation polymers that evolve water during polymerisation are intrinsically susceptible.
Of course, I said that it's interesting that permanent degradation of at least some nylon forms can be caused by water.

You've already twigged nylon is a condensation polymer- guess what is condenses?
Now you're just being a supercilious ar$e again and you haven't actually understood what I said.
 

ed_t

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 21, 2014
Messages
3,985
Of course, I said that it's interesting that permanent degradation of at least some nylon forms can be caused by water.



Now you're just being a supercilious ar$e again and you haven't actually understood what I said.
Well old bean, i'll stick with Charles Jardines' advice to avoid old nylon, and i'll understand why.
 

speytime

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 27, 2009
Messages
5,679
Location
West Lothian Scotland
There's too many reputable fishers commented on old nylon being as good as day one, that tallies with my tests on nylon I got 10 years ago.

Al
 

tangled

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 28, 2015
Messages
4,019
So long as you don't store your nylon in a fish tank under a UV lamp, it'll last as long as you will.
 

ed_t

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 21, 2014
Messages
3,985
Maybe the technologies are improving, but sea fishing i'll replace the front 150 yards every 3-4 trips. I got a big bulk spool of one much hyped line that is good for nowt other than casting over grass because after modest use you can snap it in your fingers like cotton.

I've used fluoro for most of my fly fishing because of doubts about nylon. i'm happier buying fluoro than rooting around trying to find a high turnover nylon purveyor.

I'll use nylon for little drys, and having followed this thread i'll get some heavier nylon for subsurface stuff or bigger drys/ bright days, but i'm sceptical.

I'll also half inch some scotch bright abbrasive from work to see if there's owt in Lukes ideas.
 

LukeNZ

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 28, 2017
Messages
1,144
Location
Hawkes Bay, NZ
Maybe the technologies are improving, but sea fishing i'll replace the front 150 yards every 3-4 trips. I got a big bulk spool of one much hyped line that is good for nowt other than casting over grass because after modest use you can snap it in your fingers like cotton.

I've used fluoro for most of my fly fishing because of doubts about nylon. i'm happier buying fluoro than rooting around trying to find a high turnover nylon purveyor.

I'll use nylon for little drys, and having followed this thread i'll get some heavier nylon for subsurface stuff or bigger drys/ bright days, but i'm sceptical.

I'll also half inch some scotch bright abbrasive from work to see if there's owt in Lukes ideas.
Being a self confessed dyed in the wool Maxima Ultragreen type, I am still open to trying a few spools of fluoro, to see how I get on. And it is decades since I have bothered with it. Tried it as a novelty, I suppose, and then gravitated quickly back to Maxima.

So knowing only really what Tangled has tabulated as OP, what would be considered a highly recommended fluoro to try?

Take cost out of the consideration, I don’t mind cheap and I don’t mind moderately spendy. Just something that would make a good fist of it and give me around 8lb test, but no less.

Currently for everything trout spey (all I do each week), I am just using 50/50 10lb to 12lb with generally the same length of 8lb. then some type of streamer fly. The 10 or 12lb. and the 8lb. get pulled through the abrasive a couple of times, until it’s dullish and not entirely shiny any longer. A fresh 8lb. section goes on, each day I fish.

So, what can I try fluoro-wise, that may well turn out to be more advantageous than what is currently my lowest denominator set up above?

I will give it a good honest go, and report back what I notice.

I do in general catch a goodly amount of decent sized fish (touch wood), so it will be really interesting, and add additional interest for several outings, for sure.

(Mostly I use floating spey ((Scandi))lines that would be the equivalent of trout lines in the 6-8wt. range. my total leader length is about 1 to 1.25 of rod length. Rods in my regular trout spey arsenal, range from 11’6” to 13’9”).
 
Last edited:

LukeNZ

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 28, 2017
Messages
1,144
Location
Hawkes Bay, NZ
There's a really easy way to find out :)

On the degradation of mono. I've seen nothing that says nylon degrades with humidity or heat cycling - where does that come from?

UV does degrade nylon with time. Just keeping it covered prevents that.

Fluorocarbon is unaffected by anything we can normally expose it to.
It needs an index, right up front? Then we can scoot straight to the info we are curious, or talking about, without trying to pick the winkles out of graphs and tables that may not be relevant.


It’s a good idea to write the purchase date on your spools of nylon, when you buy them. So that you don’t get an as yet unused potentially 3 year old spool of 8lb. Maxima, mixed up with the one you bought today in Turangi..
 
Last edited:

tangled

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 28, 2015
Messages
4,019
It needs an index, right up front? Then we can scoot straight to the info we are curious, or talking about, without trying to pick the winkles out of graphs and tables that may not be relevant.
Probably does now - it's got quite long.

- - - Updated - - -

.So knowing only really what Tangled has tabulated as OP, what would be considered a highly recommended fluoro to try?
Recommendations
I've resisted making recommendations for mono as it will create a lot of trouble - everyone has their favourite, but there will be people who read this thread that only want to know what to buy. So here goes.

Nylon Probably the commonest and most recommended brand of nylon by people here is Maxima Ultragreen. It's low cost, reliable and has been around forever.

Also if you're looking for the bog standard, all-things-to-all-men, everyday, use-nothing-else mono for fly fishing for both trout and salmon this seems to be The One.

Drennan Subsurface is a very similar and also much loved product.

For dry-fly, flat calm work, where the fish may be leader-shy and low-diameter nylons may work best, people seem to use either Reflo Power or Stroft GTM.

Fluorocarbon Fulling Mill and Berkley Trilene seems to be a good, low cost, standard Fluorocarbons with Airflo Sightfree G3 being the low diameter preference.

The Salmon guys like Seaguar too.
 

Cap'n Fishy

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 29, 2008
Messages
23,764
Location
Embra
Agree regarding an index. An alternative would be to reduce it to (in principle) one side of A4 and put everything else into Appendices. One side of A4 is about 400-500 words and is as much as most people can be bothered to read. If you present them with much more, they are inclined not to read any of it. It's a good exercise in extracting and summarising the most salient information. Everything else can be put into a series of Appendices on various subjects, such as chemistry, tables of diameters, photos of broken ends, etc, and linked into the summary.
 

tangled

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 28, 2015
Messages
4,019
Agree regarding an index. An alternative would be to reduce it to (in principle) one side of A4 and put everything else into Appendices. One side of A4 is about 400-500 words and is as much as most people can be bothered to read. If you present them with much more, they are inclined not to read any of it. It's a good exercise in extracting and summarising the most salient information. Everything else can be put into a series of Appendices on various subjects, such as chemistry, tables of diameters, photos of broken ends, etc, and linked into the summary.
I'll certainly get round to the index. It would be good to get hotlinks to the sections from it. I'm no html/bbc coder but I'll look it up

Still not convinced by the summary/table idea - the thing is meant to be read and be convincing because of the evidence presented. But I ain't finished yet so maybe.
 

LukeNZ

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 28, 2017
Messages
1,144
Location
Hawkes Bay, NZ
Probably does now - it's got quite long.

- - - Updated - - -



Recommendations
I've resisted making recommendations for mono as it will create a lot of trouble - everyone has their favourite, but there will be people who read this thread that only want to know what to buy. So here goes.

Nylon Probably the commonest and most recommended brand of nylon by people here is Maxima Ultragreen. It's low cost, reliable and has been around forever.

Also if you're looking for the bog standard, all-things-to-all-men, everyday, use-nothing-else mono for fly fishing for both trout and salmon this seems to be The One.

Drennan Subsurface is a very similar and also much loved product.

For dry-fly, flat calm work, where the fish may be leader-shy and low-diameter nylons may work best, people seem to use either Reflo Power or Stroft GTM.

Fluorocarbon Fulling Mill and Berkley Trilene seems to be a good, low cost, standard Fluorocarbons with Airflo Sightfree G3 being the low diameter preference.

The Salmon guys like Seaguar too.
So, to follow up on the recommendations (which I have already acted on - Fulling Mill 12 and 8lb. fluoro winging its way to me..).

Does the science and technical performance data, follow the practical usage recommendations?

Hopefully yes; but if not, why not?
 

LukeNZ

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 28, 2017
Messages
1,144
Location
Hawkes Bay, NZ
Just an idea..

Does the forum have a “sticky” page, or equivalent?

So that good works, such as Tangled’s team led info collection, can go onto a page where solid information can be found!

So that in 12 months, somebody asking, what is the best mono etc.?Can simply be referred to the sticky page, for the basics - meat and potatoes.

(The page could be called “the meat and potatoes page”, rather than the “sticky page” - which is an Americanism, I think?).

If the forum was in NZ - it would be called “the #8 page” - you have to tell them how they can do the same thing, but with fencing wire, instead of expensive stuff - that’s hard to get.. (#8 fencing wire is what the fabric of our society is woven from..)..

The lack of repetition of explanations going forward, helps us spend our limited on-line time better; you know talking about religion, brexit, randy Andy, and the many other more weighty issues of being a fly fisher..
 
Last edited:

tangled

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 28, 2015
Messages
4,019
Does the science and technical performance data, follow the practical usage recommendations?

Hopefully yes; but if not, why not?
Well it'll sink faster than your nylons - whether that matters will depend on how and where you fish. The rest seems marginal to me - though the 'flash' effect may occasionally matter and the shock breakages are a problem.

For me fluorocarbon is filed under 'minor tactics, useful on its day'.
 
Last edited:

tangled

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 28, 2015
Messages
4,019
I'm hoping it eventually gets good enough to be 'stickied'. I think it's getting close now.

Ideally you'd get a series of them on fly lines, hooks and - god forbid - rods. The problem is keeping them up to date, tho' mono doesn't change much.
 

bobmiddlepoint

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 28, 2017
Messages
2,248
Location
STAYING AT HOME!
Well it'll sink faster than your nylons - whether that matters will depend on how and where you fish. The rest seems marginal to me - though the 'flash' effect may occasionally matter and the shock breakages are a problem.

For me fluorocarbon is filed under 'minor tactics, useful on its day'.

If the differences are marginal then surely you just as easily file nylon under "minor tactics, useful on it's day" and just get on with using fluoro most of the time?

You still appear to be saying one is better than the other which doesn't seem helpful in an "Understanding Mono" thread. You still appear to be discounting the experience of others...

Andy
 

tangled

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 28, 2015
Messages
4,019
If the differences are marginal then surely you just as easily file nylon under "minor tactics, useful on it's day" and just get on with using fluoro most of the time?
In *MY* fishing I rarely have use for a slow sinking mono so the use of fluorocarbon a minor tactic for *ME*. For *ME* the only use I feel I can put it too, is when I want unweighted buzzers to sink a bit more than they would with nylon.

You still appear to be saying one is better than the other which doesn't seem helpful in an "Understanding Mono" thread. You still appear to be discounting the experience of others...
For *ME* nylon is the default choice. And *I* do think it's better because it doesn't snap under shock loads as easily. But that's *MY* view.

I don't share that view in the article. The article hopefully just contains the facts and leaves people to make their choices.
 
Top