Understanding Mono

Cap'n Fishy

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But surely If a polymer consists of only one kind of monomer then it is called a homopolymer, while a polymer which consists of more than one kind of monomer is called a copolymer. ??
regards
Bert
Correct. I'm not seeing your point in respect of your quoting my post???

Col
 

aenoon

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Correct. I'm not seeing your point in respect of your quoting my post???

Col
Was related to this contradiction.


You said Nylon 6 is a monomer. It is not. It is a polymer.
tangled said:


66 is composed of two different repeating monomers - ie a copolymer
you said
I thought it was, but it turns out it isn't. It is a homopolymer; same as Nylon 6.

So if 66 is two differing it has to be a copolymer?
regards
Bert
 

tangled

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A repeat unit or repeating unit is a part of a polymer whose repetition would produce the complete polymer chain (except for the end-groups) by linking the repeat units together successively along the chain, like the beads of a necklace.[1] [2]

A repeat unit is sometimes called a mer or mer unit. "Mer" originates from the Greek word "meros," which means a part. The word polymer derives its meaning from this, which means "many mers." A repeat unit (or mer), is not to be confused with the term monomer, which refers to the small molecule from which a polymer is synthesized.[5]
 

Cap'n Fishy

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A repeat unit or repeating unit is a part of a polymer whose repetition would produce the complete polymer chain (except for the end-groups) by linking the repeat units together successively along the chain, like the beads of a necklace.[1] [2]

A repeat unit is sometimes called a mer or mer unit. "Mer" originates from the Greek word "meros," which means a part. The word polymer derives its meaning from this, which means "many mers." A repeat unit (or mer), is not to be confused with the term monomer, which refers to the small molecule from which a polymer is synthesized.[5]
So, why did you state Nylon 6 was a monomer?
 

Cap'n Fishy

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I've said it at least 3 times now and I'll say it a fourth if it helps.

Nylon 6 is a polymer made of a single repeating molecule called a monomer.
So, why did you state twice that Nylon 6 was a monomer?

Why not, indeed! I have gone from believing that Nylon 66 was a copolymer to thinking it was a homopolymer to thinking it was a comonomer, and back to thinking it might be a copolymer after-all!

This lists both Nylon 6 and Nylon 66 as homopolymers...

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1002/oms.1210220208

Here is a slightly different take...

"Common variants include Nylon 6, Nylon 6/6, Nylon 66, and Nylon 6/66. The numbers indicate the number of carbon atoms between acid and amine groups. Single digits (like “6”) indicate that the material is devised from a single monomer in combination with itself (i.e., the molecule as a whole is a homopolymer). Two digits (like “66”) indicate that the material is devised from multiple monomers in combination with each other (comonomers). The slash indicates that the material is made up of different comonomer groups in conjunction with each other (i.e., it is a copolymer)."

That is saying Nylon 66 is a 'comonomer'. Anyone bought a spool of comonomer???

This gives Nylon 66 as a copolymer...



Wiki says there are two monomers in nylon 66...

Nylon 66

Which would make Nylon 66 a copolymer.

So, who knows? :unsure:

End of the day, it is nylon. What matters is, it is nylon, as opposed to fluorocarbon. There are two leader materials that concern us: nylon and fluorocarbon. We have no need to worry about polymers and copolymers and monomers and comonomers and all the rest of the chemistry. We have myriad leader materials and we can work out what properties we like and dislike from empirical data, without worrying about the structural formulae involved. For sure, there are differences between them, and it is up to us to work out the strengths and weaknesses of those differences in the field. I know I trust Tectan low diameter nylon, G3 fluoro and Maxima Ultragreen to do the jobs I use them for, because I have been using the 3 of them for about the last 20 years.

But I will not stop trying to help folk who come on here who are clearly confused by terms like copolymer, when it is clear they believe this is something different from nylon, when it is simply nylon.
 

tangled

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So, why did you state Nylon 6 was a monomer?
Ok, I think I understand the problem, we should be calling Nylon 6 a homopolymer - a polymer composer of single repeating monomers. But I took that as understood.

A Nylon 66 line has two different monomers making it a copolymer line.
 

PaulD

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Polymer, as a word means many monomers.
Homopolymers are polymers made by joining together monomers of the same chemical composition or structure.
A copolymer is made by the reaction of two different monomers, with units of more than one kind.

Now . . . about Heteropolymers . . .
 

tangled

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Are we clear yet?

All our lines are polymers (plastics)
Polymers are long chains of single molecules.
The molecules are called monomers.
When only one kind of monomer is used to form a polymer it's called a homopolymer.
Nylon 6 is a homopolymer
This term is never used in fishing.

When more than one monomer is used to form a polymer it's called a copolymer.
Nylon 66 uses two monomers but is still technically a form of homopolymer - a dyadic homopolymer.

True copolymers are where 2 or more monomers are used do not form dyadic homopolymers - well god knows - but an example is Nylon 6/66
This term has been adopted to market some fishing lines. You have to wonder why.

Fluorocarbon is a homopolymer but it too has copolymers. We have no idea whether our fluorocarbon lines are also copolymers lines.

Unless our nylon lines are labelled copolymer, we have no idea whether they are homopolymers or not. Nor whether or why it matters if they are.
 
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tangled

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Now . . . about Heteropolymers . . .
Well I always thought that heteropolymer=copolymer but:

"the difference between copolymer and heteropolymer
is that copolymer is (chemistry) a polymer derived from more than one species of monomer while heteropolymer is (chemistry) a polymer derived from two or more different (but often similar) types of monomer."

.

Which is too subtle for me, sounds like a distinction without a difference.
 

ed_t

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All our lines are polymers (plastics)
Polymers are long chains of single molecules.
Well, no. Some polymers are all over the show with links and branches here, there and everywhere.
Nylon 66 uses two monomers so is therefore a copolymer
"Two numbers or sets of letters indicate a dyadic homopolymer formed from two monomers: one diamine and one dicarboxylic acid. The first number indicates the number of carbons in the diamine. The two numbers should be separated by a comma for clarity, but the comma is often omitted."

(skip to nomenclature, don't shoot the messenger)

Nylon 6/66 would be a copolymer.
 

Cap'n Fishy

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Fluorocarbon is a homopolymer but it too has copolymers.
That is badly worded. Fluorocarbon polymers can be either homopolymer or copolymer in construction.

Anyhoo...

Imagine if, when fluorocarbon fishing line first came on the scene, the marketing people had decided to label the spools "Copolymer".

You would have had spools of nylon labelled "Copolymer" and spools of fluorocarbon also labelled "Copolymer". You would have had to time the drop of both in a bucket of water to tell which was the nylon and which was the fluorocarbon.

You could then rightly accuse the marketing people of being mad to label the spools of fluorocarbon with the word "Copolymer". Far better to label them "Fluorocarbon", as that is what they contain. Thankfully they went with calling it "Fluorocarbon".

Well, no less mad to label spools "Copolymer", when what they contain is nylon. Over to Thomas Dolby again... :whistle:
 

ed_t

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That is badly worded. Fluorocarbon polymers can be either homopolymer or copolymer in construction.

Anyhoo...

Imagine if, when fluorocarbon fishing line first came on the scene, the marketing people had decided to label the spools "Copolymer".

You would have had spools of nylon labelled "Copolymer" and spools of fluorocarbon also labelled "Copolymer". You would have had to time the drop of both in a bucket of water to tell which was the nylon and which was the fluorocarbon.

You could then rightly accuse the marketing people of being mad to label the spools of fluorocarbon with the word "Copolymer". Far better to label them "Fluorocarbon", as that is what they contain. Thankfully they went with calling it "Fluorocarbon".

Well, no less mad to label spools "Copolymer", when what they contain is nylon. Over to Thomas Dolby again... :whistle:
Douglas' post 1080 shows remarkable accuracy from the Hardy marketing men talking about a copolymer of nylon 6 and 66.

Perhaps they've lost the technical nouse they once had?
 

Cap'n Fishy

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Douglas' post 1080 shows remarkable accuracy from the Hardy marketing men talking about a copolymer of nylon 6 and 66.

Perhaps they've lost the technical nouse they once had?
Judging by the vast majority of marketing bollox, they maybe just got lucky? 😜
 
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