Wanna be a fishing guide?

lhomme

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You'd certainly have a case if someone who had never been fishing before thought they could become an angling guide after a week. But let's test your theory a little.

I've been a fisherman for nearly 50 years. I've been a fly fisherman for 44 years. I've fished extensively for trout, grayling, sea trout and salmon in streams, rivers, chalkstreams, lakes, resevoirs, tarns, loughs burns and lochs. I've fished in Eire, Wales, England, Scotland, Norway, Russia and the US. Additionally, I've salt water gamefished with fly in some nice and hot places. I'm not going to begin to cover coarse fishing or sea fishing but it adds different perspectives. As previously mentioned, I did a reasonable amount of gillieing when younger.

I'm hoping to partially retire in 5 years. Say I want to be a guide. If I went on this course I might learn anything form a lot to nothing new. I'll keep an open mind on that. But to test your theory do you think I'd be able to call myself a guide or even a provisional guide at the end of it?

Oh and all the ney sayers are missing the most obvious reason why you might want to go on this course apart from Caeran's very sensible assessment.

Regards

CLaG

With all due respect, if you have spent a lifetime fishing like you and I did, the day I would pay 2.5 K for a week learning to tie knots, to recognise what flies around and to help someone with less experience, I'd go for a voluntary lobotomy. Then perhaps I still might learn a thing or two about what I've been doing. Nothing personal and the thought alone of becoming "afraid" of the load of new guides that is going to inundate us is quite comical, to say the least.
 

clag

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With all due respect, if you have spent a lifetime fishing like you and I did, the day I would pay 2.5 K for a week learning to tie knots, to recognise what flies around and to help someone with less experience, I'd go for a voluntary lobotomy. Then perhaps I still might learn a thing or two about what I've been doing. Nothing personal and the thought alone of becoming "afraid" of the load of new guides that is going to inundate us is quite comical, to say the least.
Agreed, but you have missed the primary reason why I might go on this course.

Regards

CLaG
 

petevicar

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Let's look at the practicality and reality of this.

OK there is a company offering a course that in theory anyone could take part in and gat a piece of paper at the end saying that they have participated in the course and may or may not call themselves a qualified fishing guide. That possibility is not very good.

However in reality I think that it is extremely unlikely that anyone who has no real experience in fly fishing would want to be a guide. It takes a particularly "special" person to fly fish in the first place and someone who wants to be a guide has to be "extra special".

I personally think that this course will, at the end of the day, not be a major problem for established guides.
 

clag

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I'm sorry, what reason was that?
Ok, so you can be the best guide in the world but if you have noone to guide it is irrelevant. FB is one of the largest providers of premium priced trout fishing in the country. It provides fishing to people who can pay hundreds of pounds per rod per day for trout fishing. That sort of person, particularly if they are corporate or in a group are clearly a market you want to bring your skills to their attention.

So how are you going to do that? Perhaps advertise on here? Take out an advert in T&S. Good luck with that. You can set up a website with all the correct meta-links (I would anyway). You might want to see if there is anyway you could promote yourself via Farlows, Robjents or the Trout Fisher's club. Writing articles for T&S if you are able to write helps. Publish a book won't do you any harm.

However, I'd suggest a much better marketing spend than any of the aforementioned would be to spend £2.5K advertising your skills for seven days to the man who has scores of people who can afford a guide and want one going through his books. FB get a good long hard look at you. They can test your fishing, naturalist and communication skills, and anything else they think important. If I was running FB I'd want to be sure anyone I recommended to a client was going to add value to the client's day.

Regards

CLaG
 
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codyarrow

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Ok, so you can be the best guide in the world but if you have noone to guide it is irrelevant. FB is one of the largest providers of premium priced trout fishing in the country. It provides fishing to people who can pay hundreds of pounds per rod per day for trout fishing. That sort of person, particularly if they are corporate or in a group are clearly a market you want to bring your skills to their attention.

So how are you going to do that? Perhaps advertise on here? Take out an advert in T&S. Good luck with that. You can set up a website with all the correct meta-links (I would anyway). You might want to see if there is anyway you could promote yourself via Farlows, Robjents or the Trout Fisher's club. Writing articles for T&S if you are able to write helps. Publish a book won't do you any harm.

However, I'd suggest a much better marketing spend than any of the aforementioned would be to spend £2.5K advertising your skills for seven days to the man who has scores of people who can afford a guide and want one going through his books. FB get a good long hard look at you. They can test your fishing, naturalist and communication skills, and anything else they think important. If I was running FB I'd want to be sure anyone I recommended to a client was going to add value to the client's day.

Regards

CLaG
How many would they need though? They already have BobP and probably BobQ and BobR etc.
All these middle management enterprises in all walks of life make things more expensive under the guise of improved service. The reality is you are probably still booking the same people you would have to guide you but paying 2 or 3 times for it.
 

lhomme

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Ok, so you can be the best guide in the world but if you have noone to guide it is irrelevant. FB is one of the largest providers of premium priced trout fishing in the country. It provides fishing to people who can pay hundreds of pounds per rod per day for trout fishing. That sort of person, particularly if they are corporate or in a group are clearly a market you want to bring your skills to their attention.

So how are you going to do that? Perhaps advertise on here? Take out an advert in T&S. Good luck with that. You can set up a website with all the correct meta-links (I would anyway). You might want to see if there is anyway you could promote yourself via Farlows, Robjents or the Trout Fisher's club. Writing articles for T&S if you are able to write helps. Publish a book won't do you any harm.

However, I'd suggest a much better marketing spend than any of the aforementioned would be to spend £2.5K advertising your skills for seven days to the man who has scores of people who can afford a guide and want one going through his books. FB get a good long hard look at you. They can test your fishing, naturalist and communication skills, and anything else they think important. If I was running FB I'd want to be sure anyone I recommended to a client was going to add value to the client's day.

Regards

CLaG

Never guided for the money, guiding and teaching people are passions to me. But in order to spread your passion on an official basis you need to take a long course and pass exams here in Belgium (three times if you want to guide/instruct in both regions, and organise group events). It was obligatory for me, as I also worked for the provincial government, so I did it after work. They actually payed for my course. The people I guided for my employer didn't even pay me, the money went straight to the province. What I did alongside my work was none of their business.

I'll let you in on a secret, if you're good at what you do, clients will always find you. No need to "advertise" yourself or pondering about your "marketing" possibilities. And no-one needs to do it for you, and certainly not for money.
 
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clag

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How many would they need though? They already have BobP and probably BobQ and BobR etc.
All these middle management enterprises in all walks of life make things more expensive under the guise of improved service. The reality is you are probably still booking the same people you would have to guide you but paying 2 or 3 times for it.
I am guessing if they are freelancers they can have as many or as few guides as they want. In my experience, wealthy people think time is a more prescious commodity than a couple of hundred quid, particularly if it is a corporate jolly. In your scenario, how would the client find the guide if not through the company providing the fishing?

Regards

CLaG
 
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clag

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Never guided for the money, guiding and teaching people are passions to me. But in order to spread your passion on an official basis you need to take a long course and pass exams here in Belgium (three times if you want to guide/instruct in both regions, and organise group events). It was obligatory for me, as I also worked for the provincial government, so I did it after work. They actually payed for my course. The people I guided for my employer didn't even pay me, the money went straight to the province. What I did alongside my work was none of their business.

I'll let you in on a secret, if you're good at what you do, clients will always find you. No need to "advertise" yourself or pondering about your "marketing" possibilities. And no-one needs to do it for you, especially not for money.
I didn't say it was the only way to find clients I said it was a way. I'll let you in on a secret, in the private sector employers typically don't pay you so you can go away and guide for free :)

Giving anything away for free is easy, being good enough at anything to generate value people are willing to pay for is typically a bit more challenging.

Regards

CLaG
 

lhomme

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I didn't say it was the only way to find clients I said it was a way. I'll let you in on a secret, in the private sector employers typically don't pay you so you can go away and guide for free :)

Giving anything away for free is easy, being good enough at anything to generate value people are willing to pay for is typically a bit more challenging.

Regards

CLaG

You missed the point I guided a lot more people than for my employer. I AM a private guide.

Edit: and where did you get the idea it was for free? I got payed my salary by the government, guiding or not.
 
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ohanzee

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Ok, so you can be the best guide in the world but if you have noone to guide it is irrelevant. FB is one of the largest providers of premium priced trout fishing in the country. It provides fishing to people who can pay hundreds of pounds per rod per day for trout fishing. That sort of person, particularly if they are corporate or in a group are clearly a market you want to bring your skills to their attention.

So how are you going to do that? Perhaps advertise on here? Take out an advert in T&S. Good luck with that. You can set up a website with all the correct meta-links (I would anyway). You might want to see if there is anyway you could promote yourself via Farlows, Robjents or the Trout Fisher's club. Writing articles for T&S if you are able to write helps. Publish a book won't do you any harm.

However, I'd suggest a much better marketing spend than any of the aforementioned would be to spend £2.5K advertising your skills for seven days to the man who has scores of people who can afford a guide and want one going through his books. FB get a good long hard look at you. They can test your fishing, naturalist and communication skills, and anything else they think important. If I was running FB I'd want to be sure anyone I recommended to a client was going to add value to the client's day.

Regards

CLaG

Orvis and Rio run guide courses and designate guide status, verified by them, business coming through Orvis shops etc can be safely directed to guides they can trust to give a good service, if not they can withdraw that status, and the guide gets a flow of business and a badge that means it can be removed if they don't do it well, circular trust business, so I think I see where you are coming from.

I just don't see it with FB, they are just making a promise that the things they offer will help you and no vetting or continual verification of guide status, they have nothing to lose by taking your £2.5k and letting you start a cowboy business.
 

clag

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Orvis and Rio run guide courses and designate guide status, verified by them, business coming through Orvis shops etc can be safely directed to guides they can trust to give a good service, if not they can withdraw that status, and the guide gets a flow of business and a badge that means it can be removed if they don't do it well, circular trust business, so I think I see where you are coming from.

I just don't see it with FB, they are just making a promise that the things they offer will help you and no vetting or continual verification of guide status, they have nothing to lose by taking your £2.5k and letting you start a cowboy business.
I don't disagree. I knew a few of the Orvis guides. They are endorssed, but they were also promoters for Orvis (which is not a bad thing). Also, just because someone doesn't have a piece of paper doesn't make them any more or less likely to be a cowboy than someone with a piece of paper with Rio or Orvis on it.

This, I think, is the first year for FB's 'school'. You'd have to ask the owner why he is doing it. I don't see any harm in it, and not sure why some seem to be so wound up by it!

Regards

CLaG
 

mike fox

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I don't really understand why anyone should want a guide on a chalk stream. You can see the fish and you can see what they are eating. Drop a PTN in front of them any time of the year and they're hooked. It's as simple as that..... isn't it?
 

andygrey

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Orvis and Rio run guide courses and designate guide status, verified by them, business coming through Orvis shops etc can be safely directed to guides they can trust to give a good service, if not they can withdraw that status, and the guide gets a flow of business and a badge that means it can be removed if they don't do it well, circular trust business, so I think I see where you are coming from.

I just don't see it with FB, they are just making a promise that the things they offer will help you and no vetting or continual verification of guide status, they have nothing to lose by taking your £2.5k and letting you start a cowboy business.
Don't know about Rio but Orvis certainly don't run guides courses in the UK (unless you can tell me different). They do have endorsed guides but there is no official criteria, course or assessment as such.
 

ohanzee

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Don't know about Rio but Orvis certainly don't run guides courses in the UK (unless you can tell me different). They do have endorsed guides but there is no official criteria, course or assessment as such.

I presumed there was some sort of verification 'course', point is Orvis or Rio have a vested interest in making sure someone wearing their badge provides a good service, and can withdraw that status if not, so there is a degree of quality assurance there.

What does FB do to provide that quality assurance? and who are they to be assure me they have the authority to do that?

I'm qualified to teach people a couple of things, privately I can do that to the same standard I do as verified to do by the Scottish qualification authority, they wouldn't get a qualification but they would get the same thing, where this gets a little dubious is I teach them to set up classes to teach others, to do what I 'could' do privately, starting day one without any experience.

We are not talking about a hobby here, we are talking about a professional business start up, not learning to do it, but teach others to do it, and who knows, maybe they start by advertising as a business that can get customers started up teaching people to start up teaching guides...

My point is ethics of the discipline, we can all start teaching anything really.
 

Calder Junky

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If anyone’s stupid enough to think they can take a short cut to the guiding hall of fame on the the back of a couple of days of mentoring then more fool them but equally there’s often more to successful business than what you know or how good you are and it’s often down to who you know and remembering here that this is happening within the confines of a very cliquey environment on the chalk streams, dominated by some big names and therefore from a marketing point of view parting with £2500 of your hard earned to gain possible favour and maybe open doors in that clique might not necessarily be the worst two and a half grand you’ve ever spent if you want to work/ guide in that ‘unnatural’ and very fake environment. I LOATH everything about FB but at the end of the day you have to let market forces and individuals determine whether it’s a good idea or not.

Remember, ANYONE can call themselves a fishing guide anytime they like and a few no doubt will take the easy route to seek ‘certification’ of their guiding prowess by chucking a couple of grand at FB. To some people two and a half grand is more than than they could hope to get for both kidney’s and their good eye yet to others they’ll pay that and often much more for a single rod day on some stockie infested ‘flowing’ puddle, blank their cocks off in style and still fancy the kudos of calling themselves a ‘certified ‘ fishing guide at the bargain price of a couple of grand and weeks fishing ‘holiday’ on the chalk!

I’m sure FB are aiming at that kind of individual and will get takers on that basis but they’re not really fooling anyone are they- no more than any other certification body possibly, the worst guide I’ve ever used by a country mile was AAPGI ‘qualified’ and the best I’ve ever used sweeps the streets of France for a day job and probably couldn’t even spell Fishing Breaks let alone pass an exam on chalk stream etiquette.

Personally, I'm unlikely to sign up anytime soon unless they can offer me anything better for the chalk streams than a Sex Dungeon on a floater for the brownies or a blob and a booby on a Di 3 or 5 ripped at warp speed for the more selective rainbows then there’s nothing more I can be taught🤣.

Only kidding about the booby by the way...

They smash the blob every time 🤣
 

BobP

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I don't really understand why anyone should want a guide on a chalk stream. You can see the fish and you can see what they are eating. Drop a PTN in front of them any time of the year and they're hooked. It's as simple as that..... isn't it?
Book yourself a day on the lower Test around Timsbury where the river is 20-25 yards across and several feet deep. See how many you can see there.

Certainly on a nice, 12 metre wide stretch that is a couple of feet deep you will see SOME of the fish on a nice bright, sunny day. Get a cloudy, grey day and you'll not see much at all.
 
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