WBT Parliament petition to ban pet pesticides

aenoon

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“... When you start large scale use of any sort of pesticide, there are often unanticipated consequences,” said Goulson...”
Not “unanticipated” at all. Fleas.
Bottom line is we, (the UK) use more fiprinol in our agriculture than we would care to admit.
It aint the cats and dogs that are responsible!


Read it all through.

And indeed, the description, and its effect on soil and waterways.


So even if I dont wash, or let my dogs swim for 10 days after dosing them, I am still wrong!
Aye right.

Bert
 

Cap'n Fishy

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OK.
So 22 million dogs and cats getting a dose of 2.5 millilitres of spot on (and that is a rather over estimate, based on the average weight of 20 kg per animal) equates to 55million millilitres, or 55000 litres, or 12099 gallons in old money.
That amount is polluting all our waterways?
dont think so.

Bert
“The problem is these chemicals are so potent,”
 

Cap'n Fishy

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Bottom line is we, (the UK) use more fiprinol in our agriculture than we would care to admit.
It aint the cats and dogs that are responsible!


Read it all through.

And indeed, the description, and its effect on soil and waterways.


So even if I dont wash, or let my dogs swim for 10 days after dosing them, I am still wrong!
Aye right.

Bert

So what out of any of that says it's fine to use it to treat pets for fleas and then have them piss its toxic metabolites into our waterways where it is killing aquatic insects?
 

Cap'n Fishy

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Perhaps, but it aint tick prevention on dogs at blame.
And how many cats go for a swim?
Bert

It's not them swimming that is the issue, it's them pissing the even more toxic metabolites out and them getting washed into the watercourses.
 

aenoon

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So what out of any of that says it's fine to use it to treat pets for fleas and then have them piss its toxic metabolites into our waterways where it is killing aquatic insects?
Dont know many dogs that seek out waterways to piss!.
Or cats for that matter.
Indeed, read the bit about the breakdown in the soil.
The treatment of our seed, grain crops et al, will have a far higher effect on waterways than any dogs or cats, given the acreage covered.
Bert
 
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ohanzee

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Bert,

Rosemary and lemon mixed up in a spray bottle does the job without the chemicals, for dogs that is, don't put lemon on a cat or it will go mental, better for them, you and everyone.
 

Banksie

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Rosemary and lemon mixed up in a spray bottle does the job without the chemicals, for dogs that is, don't put lemon on a cat or it will go mental, better for them, you and everyone.
I’m assuming you tried it then.
On a cat, that is.
 

taffy1

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Bert,

Rosemary and lemon mixed up in a spray bottle does the job without the chemicals, for dogs that is, don't put lemon on a cat or it will go mental, better for them, you and everyone.

Has that concoction been tried on invertibrates & fish populations to determine it's effects? Wasn't it a concoction of sorts that developed this Covid-19?
 

aenoon

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Bert,

Rosemary and lemon mixed up in a spray bottle does the job without the chemicals, for dogs that is, don't put lemon on a cat or it will go mental, better for them, you and everyone.
Pish.
Get out into tick country covered in rosemary and lemon m8.
You will get infested with midges, and of course ticks.
I have owned and trained dozens of gun dogs, rosemary and lemon?
they would be looking to roll in the nearest pile of badger poo, and still have ticks on them!
Bert
 

ohanzee

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Pish.
Get out into tick country covered in rosemary and lemon m8.
You will get infested with midges, and of course ticks.
I have owned and trained dozens of gun dogs, rosemary and lemon?
they would be looking to roll in the nearest pile of badger poo, and still have ticks on them!
Bert

Its not as powerful a defense as toxins on the skin, and needs to be sprayed on half a dozen times a day if they are outside but its doing a whole lot less harm to the animal and the environment, and it does appear to work, couple of drops of essential oils in a hand sprayer and shake, makes the dogs smell nice too.
 
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aenoon

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Its not as powerful a defense as toxins on the skin, and needs to be sprayed on half a dozen times a day if they are outside but its doing a whole lot less harm to the animal and the environment, and it does appear to work, couple of drops of essential oils in a hand sprayer and shake, makes the dogs smell nice too.
You tried it on dozens of dogs?
I need a powerful defense.
Dont need them to smell nice.
Just need them healthy.
"Appears to work" w.t.f.?
You are in the realms of urban myths now.

Bert
 

ohanzee

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You tried it on dozens of dogs?
I need a powerful defense.
Dont need them to smell nice.
Just need them healthy.
"Appears to work" w.t.f.?
You are in the realms of urban myths now.

Bert

I can only tell you my experience, the dog is gone now, and a whippet on mainly grazed fields but the rosemary/lemon spray did no different from spot on chemicals.
 

aenoon

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I can only tell you my experience, the dog is gone now, and a whippet on mainly grazed fields but the rosemary/lemon spray did no different from spot on chemicals.
and just how do you know that?
sure if your dog was only on grazed fields, low tick infestation, but rosemary versus fiprinol, in same situation producing same result, on one dog is hardly a win for rosemary.
Probably means low tick count in grazed fields.
As before, ticks carry a pretty nasty infection, I will do everything to safeguard the dogs, and me, from said infection.
Bert
 

ohanzee

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and just how do you know that?
sure if your dog was only on grazed fields, low tick infestation, but rosemary versus fiprinol, in same situation producing same result, on one dog is hardly a win for rosemary.
Probably means low tick count in grazed fields.
As before, ticks carry a pretty nasty infection, I will do everything to safeguard the dogs, and me, from said infection.
Bert

I was referring mainly to fleas, and yes low tic problem on shorter grass, especially here, but whippets do get tics on the belly and up on the soft skin under the back legs, less to zero with a spray of rosemary and lemon, just saying, no harm in trying it.

I'm a tic magnet, a liberal rub with neem oil works for me, at least try that for you.
 

aenoon

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I was referring mainly to fleas, and yes low tic problem on shorter grass, especially here, but whippets do get tics on the belly and up on the soft skin under the back legs, less to zero with a spray of rosemary and lemon, just saying, no harm in trying it.

I'm a tic magnet, a liberal rub with neem oil works for me, at least try that for you.
Its not for me!
Fiprinol spot on is for my dogs!
And just as an aside, neem oil prevents all insects from reproducing, and kills their eggs!
Which one do you go for now?
Bert
 

bobmiddlepoint

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Makes me wonder what they give cattle and other livestock against these things.


In the other thread o this a few days go there was a link to this piece which explains the issue in more detail:


From which we have.

"The research found fipronil in 99% of samples from 20 rivers and the average level of one particularly toxic breakdown product of the pesticide was 38 times above the safety limit. Fipronil and another nerve agent called imidacloprid that was found in the rivers have been banned from use on farms for some years."

And.

"Fipronil was detected in 99% of samples and a highly toxic breakdown product called fipronil sulfone was found in 97%. The average concentrations were 5 and 38 times higher than their chronic toxicity limits, respectively. The UK has no official limit for these chemicals so the scientists used a 2017 assessment produced for a water quality control board in California. Imidacloprid was found in 66% of the samples and was above toxicity limits in seven of the 20 rivers."

And.

"Fipronil was banned from use on farms in 2017, but was little used before that. Imidacloprid was banned in 2018 and was also relatively little used in recent years.

And.

"The researchers found the highest levels of the pesticides downstream from water treatment plants, showing that urban areas were the main source and not farmland."

I have no doubt that damaging chemicals do come from farm livestock but here a problem with domestic flea treatment has been highlighted so why shouldn't we do something about it?
You would think that anglers would take ANY issue that affects water quality seriously and do their best lessen these impacts where they can. Even if you live in some arid corner of the country which by some miracle has no route to watercourses these chemicals and breakdown products will be going into the soil and affecting terrestrial inverts.

We have three dogs and have used these products in the past but not for the last five years or so. Not because of the toxicity issue (which we knew nothing about) but because we aren't seeing infestations of fleas or found anything that works for ticks. We see the occasional flea but don't reach for the spot on every time we do. Simply keeping the dogs clean and groomed keeps fleas at bay for us. Regular trips to the beach and saltwater swimming probably help too but I know that isn't an option for everyone.


Andy
 

BobP

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OK.
So 22 million dogs and cats getting a dose of 2.5 millilitres of spot on (and that is a rather over estimate, based on the average weight of 20 kg per animal) equates to 55million millilitres, or 55000 litres, or 12099 gallons in old money.
That amount is polluting all our waterways?
dont think so.

Bert
Apparently it's 10 million dogs and I doubt that many of them will ever see a river much less go in it seeing as most dogs, like their owners, are urban dwellers. I also doubt that many of those urban dogs can even swim. Can't say I've ever seen a Shi Tzu swimming the canal.

I suggest the WBT turn its attention to a serious issue like micro-plastics that is doing REAL damage. How about they take on the farming lobby about soil erosion since we demonstrated 15 years ago that more than 80% of the fine sediments that clog up spawning gravels are agricultural in origin. That is damaging the wild brown trout that they are supposed to be protecting.

"The highest levels of pesticides were downstream from water treatment works showing that urban areas were the main source" is rubbish. Water treatment works are almost always located near to urban areas which makes good sense. I live in a Wiltshire village and my waste water goes to Marlborough STW as does the waste from several other villages in the area.
 
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