WBT Parliament petition to ban pet pesticides

[glueman]

Why do wet dogs smell like digestive biscuits?

Do they I like digestive biscuits but wet dogs stink ( I have had dogs but not in the last 20 years as cramp ones style a bit )

 

[eddleston123]

Looks like debate has stopped signatures from fff members dead in its tracks.



Douglas

 

[3lbgrayling]

Looks like debate has stopped signatures from fff members dead in its tracks.



Douglas

I have tried 4 time.never recieving the required confirmation email.

Jim

 

[glueman]

Looks like debate has stopped signatures from fff members dead in its tracks.



Douglas

Isn't that what debate is supposed to do,make folk think unless of course you are an MP

 

[ohanzee]

Why do wet dogs smell like digestive biscuits?

My take is they smell rather worse than digestive biscuits, but dogs like Labradors and Spaniels produce oil to make them waterproof, seemingly they produce more when wet or something, whippets don't seem to do this.

 

[Cap'n Fishy]

I have had dogs but not in the last 20 years as cramp ones style a bit...

I like dogs, but not enough to walk behind them, picking up their hot steaming excrement.

Dogs are fine. It's 'dog people' who are totally barking.



Here's one source of all that insecticide that's getting flushed into the watercourses...

 

[aenoon]

I am glad all you experts now realise its a coat/skin treatment, and not orally administered.

Bert

 

[Cap'n Fishy]

I am glad all you experts now realise its a coat/skin treatment, and not orally administered.

Bert

I'm no expert - never claimed to be... which is why I was doing a bit of research on it. Seems use of nicotinoids in UK agriculture is no longer allowed?

As for oral administration of flea treatments...

What's the active insecticide in these orally administered flea treatments?

NexGard

Program

Capstar (which says it is Nitenpyram)

Bravecto (which says it is Fluralaner)

Plus loads more examples if you Google for them.

How do we know how toxic the metabolites of any of those are to insects once they are pissed up against a lamp-post and washed down the drains and into the watercourses?

As mentioned upthread, 0.03 micrograms per litre is a very small amount to be killing insects. And where on earth is the River Tame getting over 4 micrograms per litre of these things from???

Col

 

[Cap'n Fishy]

I am glad all you experts now realise its a coat/skin treatment, and not orally administered.

Bert

So, washing it off their coat and into the watercourse is OK, is it?

 

[aenoon]

So, washing it off their coat and into the watercourse is OK, is it?

Nope, its not, just keep them away from water for 48 hrs, after treatment, and indeed, the chemicals degrade in the soil if washed off by rain.
We as Scottish anglers put more s h i t into watercourses fighting off midges.
Look at the ingredients of any of the much touted repellants!
Just pointing out that dogs dont piss it into water as implied by many on this thread.
Bert

 

[Paul_B]

Theres some good insecticides around today, I use neem oil on the allotment to get rid of whitefly on my veg,
Diamatreous in a dust bath for the hens is brilliant as a flea, mite and louse killer, all the perches, nest boxes and crucks and cranny's get some to make sure mite don't get established. Its also handy in the greenhouse along with Cinnamon powder and neem oil.

 

[Cap'n Fishy]

... just keep them away from water for 48 hrs, after treatment, and indeed, the chemicals degrade in the soil if washed off by rain.

Where does it say that? Or did you just make that up?

If chemicals are washed off by rain, how does it end up in the soil, rather than washed down drains and into the watercourse?

We as Scottish anglers put more s h i t into watercourses fighting off midges.

Present your data to support this claim.

Just pointing out that dogs dont piss it into water as implied by many on this thread.

Well, they do, if they are given oral treatments... which it appears many are, given the myriad advertisements for oral flea treatments?

 

[aenoon]

Neem oil is as bad as some of the chemicals mentioned here.
It prevents insects reproducing forever, and kills any eggs that had been produced prior to treatment.

Bert.

 

[aenoon]

Where does it say that? Or did you just make that up?



Present your data to support this claim.



Well, they do, if they are given oral treatments... which it appears many are, given the myriad advertisements for oral flea treatments?

Lets start at the bottom one.
Oral treatments are not fiprinol (the point of this thread).

Next one up.
Present my data to support my claim we use midge repellants profusely?
You yourself have posted many times about same thing! and indeed reccomended certain products, after posting photos of same!.

Top one.
Its printed on the packaging of most spot on applications, but then, as you have so obviously never used it on dogs, I can understand the not knowing.

Bottom line.
It stops ticks and fleas infesting my dogs.
The health and welfare of those dogs is important to me, having bred and trained gun dogs for 40 odd years, I do have a bit of experience in the effects of said ticks and fleas.
Lymes disease, although the most mentioned one, is not the only disease ticks carry.
I dont want any of them.

Bert

 

[Paul_B]

Neem oil is as bad as some of the chemicals mentioned here.
It prevents insects reproducing forever, and kills any eggs that had been produced prior to treatment.

Bert.

only if they eat it plus it degrades rapidly, it certainly works for whitefly

Its used a lot on humans for loads of things

 

[aenoon]

only if they eat it plus it degrades rapidly, it certainly works for whitefly

Its used a lot on humans for loads of things

yes I know all that, but so is fipronol!
Natural oil that wipes out insects, or synthetised one that does same?
Most folk would plump for the natural one, but end game is still the same.
Bert

 

[Cap'n Fishy]

Lets start at the bottom one.
Oral treatments are not fiprinol (the point of this thread).

I'm not picking out fiprinol here. Insecticides are insecticides. That is why I asked what the active insecticides were in those ones I linked in. If the oral flea treatments contain insecticides and the metabolites end up in the water course, does it matter whether or not it was fiprinol what done it?

Present my data to support my claim we use midge repellants profusely?

Not what I asked. I asked you to present your data to prove that midge repellents contribute more shit to the watercourses than insecticides used in flea treatments on pets.

I acknowledge that midge repellents might contribute and they are obviously something we should be paying attention to. But that is absolutely no excuse for turning a blind eye to flea treatments killing aquatic insects on a far larger scale!

Its printed on the packaging of most spot on applications...

Sounds dubious, given the reports of its longevity in the environment. Marketing shpiel???

Bottom line.
It stops ticks and fleas infesting my dogs.
The health and welfare of those dogs is important to me, having bred and trained gun dogs for 40 odd years, I do have a bit of experience in the effects of said ticks and fleas.
Lymes disease, although the most mentioned one, is not the only disease ticks carry.
I dont want any of them.

Aye, bottom line is you put your dogs before the health of our watercourses and the invertebrate life in them. That's your choice.

 

[aenoon]

I'm not picking out fiprinol here. Insecticides are insecticides. That is why I asked what the active insecticides were in those ones I linked in. If the oral flea treatments contain insecticides and the metabolites end up in the water course, does it matter whether or not it was fiprinol what done it?



Not what I asked. I asked you to present your data to prove that midge repellents contribute more shit to the watercourses than insecticides used in flea treatments on pets.



Sound dubious, given the reports of its longevity in the environment. Marketing shpiel???



Aye, bottom line is you put your dogs before the health of our watercourses and the invertebrate life in them. That's your choice.

Dont we all do that in the way we live our lives?
Bottom line is you have been taken to task on several points, and found wanting, and you just dont like it.
Dogs pissing fiprinol into waterways?
No seed treatment of fiprinol in uk?
Chemical use for midges?
And yes, my dogs health is very important to me, as is the health of our watercourses, but I am not going to get all het up about a very tenious link between same.
I will now leave this thread.
Sign the petition if you want guys, but please check the facts.

Bert

 

[Paul_B]

yes I know all that, but so is fipronol!
Natural oil that wipes out insects, or synthetised one that does same?
Most folk would plump for the natural one, but end game is still the same.
Bert

So from reading the thread, we shouldn't take our dogs for a pee in the river or let them pee on a lamp post thats in the river .
To be fair we don't have much trouble with fleas or ticks, however my family and friends in Argyll have our share

 

[Cap'n Fishy]

Bottom line is you have been taken to task on several points, and found wanting, and you just dont like it.

Erm, that's pretty much what I would level at you! I'm perky as a perky thing.

Dogs pissing fiprinol into waterways?

Insecticides/toxic metabolites from flea treatments getting pissed into waterways, including those excreted by dogs, whatever the particular chemical involved.

No seed treatment of fiprinol in uk?

No, no longer seed treatment in the UK. Seed treated with it is imported from the EU. That just adds to the problem. It in no way excuses the issue in question.

Chemical use for midges?

Acknowledged... several times now. I'm not attempting to duck any issues here!

And yes, my dogs health is very important to me, as is the health of our watercourses, but I am not going to get all het up about a very tenious link between same.

Not tenuous. Very clear from a lot of good evidence.

... please check the facts.

Aye, please check the facts.