Welded/braided loop failure - advice?

ohanzee

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I don't think they both are relying on friction your relying on glue, I'm relying on the finger trap effect backed by a mechanical fixing of whipping finished with aquasure to seal, fix and give a tough flexible finish.
No try it, when you pull the leader home you feel it grip where you roughened it, there is probably more glue action going on with the Whitlock join but it is essentially the grip of the thick end of the leader going through a small space, as soon as you stop the glue makes contact with the inside of the line its stuck fast, if you don't roughen it, it slides right through.
 

speytime

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No try it, when you pull the leader home you feel it grip where you roughened it, there is probably more glue action going on with the Whitlock join but it is essentially the grip of the thick end of the leader going through a small space, as soon as you stop the glue makes contact with the inside of the line its stuck fast, if you don't roughen it, it slides right through.
I've seen a belter of a fish you landed with it so I don't doubt it's strong enough but it's not for me in regards to rainbows, I might use it on the river for trout though but with aquasure 😂
 

JCP

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Providing Angling Active sell genuine moser loops then yes, I've been meaning to take a couple of photos of the top guide issue and the diameter difference from airflo but the rivers been fishing well.
Edit...
Afterthought 😂 in the past, I tried putting the sleeve on a cocktail stick so I could sand the shoulder off, i can tell you they take some sanding I didn't make a dent in it.

Cheers Al
Totally bemused.There are no ''shoulders'' on the RM Minicons I have.Just looking at the packet now which says Roman Moser/Micro-Loops/Minicon-Trout/ 8kg /16lbs.:confused:

JP
 

shropshire_lad

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Totally bemused.There are no ''shoulders'' on the RM Minicons I have.Just looking at the packet now which says Roman Moser/Micro-Loops/Minicon-Trout/ 8kg /16lbs.:confused:

JP
I assume what Al is referring to is the edges of the sleeve which stand slightly proud of the line and thus can give a bit of a bumpy ride through the top guide particularly at certain angles. His advice was to lay a bead of Aquasure around the edges of the sleeve which smooths the ride. Seems sensible and I have done this - tricky to photograph without a macro lens but hopefully the below succeeds.

.....and before anyone tells me, I know, I need to get out more, particularly fishing 🐟

IMG_4695.jpg
 

JCP

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I assume what Al is referring to is the edges of the sleeve which stand slightly proud of the line and thus can give a bit of a bumpy ride through the top guide particularly at certain angles. His advice was to lay a bead of Aquasure around the edges of the sleeve which smooths the ride. Seems sensible and I have done this - tricky to photograph without a macro lens but hopefully the below succeeds.

.....and before anyone tells me, I know, I need to get out more, particularly fishing 🐟

View attachment 28657
Sorry but looks bizarre I'm this picture ? Is the sleeve split ? This link from Barrio Fly Lines a well established UK fly line maker. See how easy they are to fit to your line here
 

shropshire_lad

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Sorry but looks bizarre I'm this picture ? Is the sleeve split ? This link from Barrio Fly Lines a well established UK fly line maker. See how easy they are to fit to your line here
I think we are flogging a dead horse here but just look at that last picture in your link - you can clearly see a step at the end of the sleeve. This will inevitable catch a bit through the guides but, as has been said several times on this thread, probably not enough to be a serious issue for most. By laying a bit of glue at each end of the sleeve you create a "shoulder" for want of a better word enabling the sleeve to glide through the rings easier.

The sleeve is not split, the glue covering may be slightly thicker at one end creating that illusion.
 

ed_t

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I think we are flogging a dead horse here but just look at that last picture in your link - you can clearly see a step at the end of the sleeve. This will inevitable catch a bit through the guides but, as has been said several times on this thread, probably not enough to be a serious issue for most. By laying a bit of glue at each end of the sleeve you create a "shoulder" for want of a better word enabling the sleeve to glide through the rings easier.

The sleeve is not split, the glue covering may be slightly thicker at one end creating that illusion.
Glue at the loop end will negate the braid trap effect of the stuff under the sheath...

If it works it works though.

I'll stick to my needle knots.
 

tangled

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My concern was that the fly line cracked at the joint with the braded connection. Something Mr Barrio commented on. btw, he doesn't use glue at all

“A flexible product like aquasure is better than superglue for this in my opinion, as it is less likely to cause a stiff hinge point. Another tip that I often read is to seal the end of the fly line before fitting a braided leader loop, it is said that this helps to prevent water getting into the core of the line, I'm not sure if this helps with flotation, but I guess there is no harm in adding this to your procedure - as long as you use a tiny amount of glue and you make sure that this is fully dry before fitting the braided loop.“

I think that in my case the crack was caused by using a fairly stiff plastic tubing rather than a more flexible, rubber one. It creates a hinge that eventually fails.
 

shropshire_lad

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Glue at the loop end will negate the braid trap effect of the stuff under the sheath...
Ah, but will it if it's flexible glue? ;)

The supplied instructions suggest you can use a household waterproof glue throughout the whole braid length. Coat the fly line with it, insert in loop and then you can even varnish the outside with the glue. I agree it has to be flexible though, a rigid adhesive like Superglue would probably not be advised.IMG_4696.jpg
 
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ohanzee

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The supplied instructions suggest you can use a household waterproof glue throughout the whole braid length. Coat the fly line with it, insert in loop and then you can even varnish the outside with the glue. I agree it has to be flexible though, a rigid adhesive like Superglue would probably not be advised.
My understanding is you only need to trap the braid end to stop it coming off, just a spot in case it slides against something that drags it off from the back as it were, when you pull on a braided loop without glue it should grip all by itself, if you were relying on the glue alone(same with a Whitlock join) it would just pull out.
I have not really been following because I hate them but the wee sleeve should be enough without even using glue in that it traps the end and stops it being dragged off on a rod ring or whatever.
 

shropshire_lad

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My understanding is you only need to trap the braid end to stop it coming off, just a spot in case it slides against something that drags it off from the back as it were, when you pull on a braided loop without glue it should grip all by itself, if you were relying on the glue alone(same with a Whitlock join) it would just pull out.
I have not really been following because I hate them but the wee sleeve should be enough without even using glue in that it traps the end and stops it being dragged off on a rod ring or whatever.
I think you are right OH.

I think the only reason Moser suggests the alternative fixing method as per my photo above is for a "flexible" connection opposed to a more rigid connection if superglue is used below the sleeve. That said, I'm no expert here.

I'm picking up fly fishing again after many years' absence and having sold my previous gear. Previously, I had big butt tapered leaders nail knotted to all my lines and never had a problem or issue. I only started using braided loops as this is what my new fly lines came with. I did try and tie another nail knot recently with big butt leader and failed miserably - no idea why. Years ago I managed easily.

Anyway, enough said, my new braided loop looks and feels good and so I should put it to the test ;)
 

ohanzee

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I'm picking up fly fishing again after many years' absence and having sold my previous gear. Previously, I had big butt tapered leaders nail knotted to all my lines and never had a problem or issue. I only started using braided loops as this is what my new fly lines came with. I did try and tie another nail knot recently with big butt leader and failed miserably - no idea why. Years ago I managed easily.

Anyway, enough said, my new braided loop looks and feels good and so I should put it to the test ;)
A big butt is a curse, if only there was a leader with.....enter the Varivas Super Yamame Flat Butt Gold....along with having the longest and coolest name in the world of leaders it has..a flat butt designed not to bulk up the knot.
Among its other attributes are half of it being butt section(round, the flat bit is just the end) and the rest of it a taper to a very very long super fine tip, and its.....gold in colour, they actually feel posh when you cast them.

Only very small single flies on these though.
 

speytime

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Totally bemused.There are no ''shoulders'' on the RM Minicons I have.Just looking at the packet now which says Roman Moser/Micro-Loops/Minicon-Trout/ 8kg /16lbs.:confused:

JP
No shoulder really?
_20200712_194952.JPG
I don't know your definition but that's a shoulder, a pin of aquasure makes a nice lift to stop that lumpy feel.
It's all subjective really, the individual being happy is what counts.

Al
 

JCP

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I want desperately to let this dead horse lie but just to say hand on heart my RM Loops are not like that at all.They are snug to the fly line. I do not know how long I have had these but have a couple of packets.I only use them on some floating lines hence I have a small stock.If I had a shoulder/ridge like that I would not be at all happy with it.Maybe something has changed.I have just looked at one I have on a WF Loop Stillwater 5wt line and yes there is a slight and I mean slight lip but nothing I would be concerned about.It flexes easily and is secured with minimal Loctite. The Macro shot shown would exaggerate the issue too and granted it looks really bad. All I can say is many of the country's top reservoir fly fishers use these loops and they just put 'em on and fish 'em.End of for me.

JP
 
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