When should you use Fluorocarbon or Co-polymer?

steve1968

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Dec 28, 2011
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102
Still a relative newbie to fly fishing and maybe i should have figured this one out by now but i haven't so now want to get a better understanding of what type of leader to use in which circumstance assuming you have both in your bag which would you use for :

Sinking line - weighted fly
Sinking line - booby
Floating line - weighted fly
Floating line - unweighted fly
Floating line - Dry fly

etc

or doesn't it really matter that much ?
 

tangled

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Dec 28, 2015
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Still a relative newbie to fly fishing and maybe i should have figured this one out by now but i haven't so now want to get a better understanding of what type of leader to use in which circumstance assuming you have both in your bag which would you use for :

Sinking line - weighted fly
Sinking line - booby
Floating line - weighted fly
Floating line - unweighted fly
Floating line - Dry fly

etc

or doesn't it really matter that much ?

Here ya go. lose your life for a couple of hours

 

eddleston123

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Peebles, Scottish Borders
Hi Steve,

My apologies for flippant reply. It's just that there has been many threads around this subject and squillions of posts.

Your post deserves an intelligent reply. Unfortunately, I am not the one to provide that.

I'm sure that there will be someone along soon to assist.

A.T.B.



Douglas
 

Rob Edmunds

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It's a minefield.... ask 10 people and you'll get 20 different answers depending on what mood they are in 😁...it's always going to get opposing views

For me personally its straightforward enough....the type of leader material and its relative advantages depend on the conditions and method you are fishing..... in some cases these advantages are greater than at other times

So in coloured water with less than 4ft visability, or when fishing really deep say 15ft+ or in high winds it makes no difference what you use....

But in clear, calm or shallow water or on pressured fish then a good quality ( thin and supple) flurocarbon is easily best... it will get you more takes.

Personally I would use flurocarbon in all instances even dries ( in various breaking strains) on a Stillwater unless fishing tiny dries or nymphs literally in the surface (size 14's and below).....then I'd use a Copolymer so it didn't sink them too fast.

Copolymer is actually just Nylon Monofilament under a different name...as a rule it tends to be thinner and more supple than most standard nylon monofilaments.

If you want to keep it really easy.....as was said before, Copolymer ( Nylon) on surface, Flurocarbon Subsurface
 
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cammy

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Dumfries, South West Scotland
Still a relative newbie to fly fishing and maybe i should have figured this one out by now but i haven't so now want to get a better understanding of what type of leader to use in which circumstance assuming you have both in your bag which would you use for :

Sinking line - weighted fly maxima ultragreen 8lb
Sinking line - booby maxima ultragreen 8lb
Floating line - weighted fly maxima ultragreen 6-8lb
Floating line - unweighted fly maxima ultragreen 4-6lb
Floating line - Dry fly maxima ultragreen 4-6lb

etc

or doesn't it really matter that much ?
My suggestion above or wot Rob said.
 

steve1968

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Dec 28, 2011
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102
Thanks for all the replys , yes i'm aware there are many posts regards this question but the more i read the more confused i got, probably down to the different views and people using different names for what others say is the same thing e.g nylon, mono, copolymer .
I think one question i'm really looking for an answer to is will fluoro help flies sink faster or is this only governed by the weight of the flies , equally will be retrieve depth be effected or is this governed by the density of the fly line used ?
 

ed_t

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Thanks for all the replys , yes i'm aware there are many posts regards this question but the more i read the more confused i got, probably down to the different views and people using different names for what others say is the same thing e.g nylon, mono, copolymer .
I think one question i'm really looking for an answer to is will fluoro help flies sink faster or is this only governed by the weight of the flies , equally will be retrieve depth be effected or is this governed by the density of the fly line used ?
You wouldn't use a floating line to fish deep, so why use nylon to get down?
 

tangled

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Thanks for all the replys , yes i'm aware there are many posts regards this question but the more i read the more confused i got, probably down to the different views and people using different names for what others say is the same thing e.g nylon, mono, copolymer.

Yeh, but it's worth taking a bit of time to get it sorted. Just read the mono thread.

I think one question i'm really looking for an answer to is will fluoro help flies sink faster

The only answer is 'it depends'.

Fluoro sinks faster than mono so in theory it could pull some flies down faster. But to do it it first has to sink itself and in thin diameters it won't, without help.

Then it depends on the weight of your fly. If its weighted it'll sink faster than your line anyway, if not it depends on the flies mass and buoyancy. If you're lure fishing the weight of the lure will normally drag either material down so I doubt the leader makes a material difference.

equally will be retrieve depth be effected or is this governed by the density of the fly line used ?

The fly line and the fly will have far greater effects than the leader material - a sinking line and a heavy lure will sink whatever you use, but there are probably marginal gains to be made by using fluoro occasionally; whether you think it worthwhile is your choice.

Just don't use the low breaking strength, thin stuff.
 
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Cap'n Fishy

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Still a relative newbie to fly fishing and maybe i should have figured this one out by now but i haven't so now want to get a better understanding of what type of leader to use in which circumstance assuming you have both in your bag which would you use for :

Sinking line - weighted fly
Sinking line - booby
Floating line - weighted fly
Floating line - unweighted fly
Floating line - Dry fly

etc

or doesn't it really matter that much ?

Just my tuppenceworth... 😜...

First rule of leader club...

It can matter that much... sometimes...

Preamble - for this purpose, I need to assume that you agree that for stillwater dry fly fishing, you want to have your fly floating but your leader under the surface. I'm just going to take that as a gimme. OK, let's carry on...

Second rule of leader club... the alternative to fluorocarbon is nylon, not copolymer. Copolymer is marketing-speak for nylon. Fluorocarbon and nylon are comparable materials with different properties, 'Copolymer' is nonsensical in this respect.

It's when to use nylon and when to use fluorocarbon.

Third rule of leader club...

Water has a density of 1.00
Nylon has a density of 1.05 to 1.10
Fluorocarbon has a density of 1.75 to 1.90

If you hold a piece of nylon and a piece of fluorocarbon (of similar length and diameter) just below the surface and let them go, the fluorocarbon will sink at 3 times the rate of the nylon. This difference greatly affects how your flies fish, particularly when slow-fishing lightweight flies in stillwaters. Ask any expert at the 'washing-line' technique, or those who swing buzzers on the dead drift.

Fourth rule of leader club...

While fluoro sinks at 3 times the rate of nylon, there is an interfering factor: the surface interface. This is the bit between air and water. It is highly water-repellent, so is in turn highly attractive to anything else that is water-repellent. This includes leader materials, in particular fluorocarbon. So, while it might seem a better idea to use fluorocarbon to get a dry-fly leader to cut through the surface, the extra density is trumped by its greater water-repellency. So, if you want to fish stillwater dries and get the leader below surface, you are better with nylon.

Fifth rule of leader club...

Not all nylons and fluorocarbons are the same. In both camps, there are materials that have been messed about with. Some call them 'pre-stretched'. Some call them 'low-diameter'. Some call them 'double-strength'. What they bring to the table is extra breaking strength for the same diameter... but at a cost. They are more brittle than the standard types - less able to resist sudden shocks or abrasion. However, with practiced use, they can and do outperform standard materials when a 'high-performance' is required. The trick is in knowing when to use them. ;)

Sixth rule of leader club. Ignore all received wisdom about visibility of fluorocarbon and nylon below water. Accept they are different at different times, and it can make all the difference as to which you are using on the day.

So, what I would use with your list...

Sinking line - weighted fly ... Depends what I am trying to do... speed of sink of the line, amount of weight on the fly, speed of retrieve, depth I am trying to fish it at... either nylon or fluorocarbon.
Sinking line - booby ... Depends on things like rate of sink of the fly line, the size of the booby eyes, the speed of retrieve and the depth I am trying to fish the fly at... either nylon or fluorocarbon.
Floating line - weighted fly ... Depends on how much weight, what length leader, what speed of retrieve, etc... either nylon or fluorocarbon.
Floating line - unweighted fly ... Depends on what depth I am trying to fish the fly at... either nylon or fluorocarbon.
Floating line - Dry fly. Simples! Nylon. (y)

And if I am catching nothing while my boat partner is hauling them out, and we are on different materials, then I will change to what he is using... ;)

Col
 

steve1968

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Dec 28, 2011
Messages
102
Well that’s cleared that up then !

Genuinely , thanks for all informative replies .
 
G

GEK79

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Still a relative newbie to fly fishing and maybe i should have figured this one out by now but i haven't so now want to get a better understanding of what type of leader to use in which circumstance assuming you have both in your bag which would you use for :

Sinking line - weighted fly
Sinking line - booby
Floating line - weighted fly
Floating line - unweighted fly
Floating line - Dry fly

etc

or doesn't it really matter that much ?
You will get lots of advice, hear discussions disagreements and opinions on the questions you have asked.. Listen to the answers take notes of the lines and brands mentioned frequently and then it will lead to you finding what's right for you.. You will get alot of great advice. But it's your choice in the end.. Good luck
Gary.
 

PaulD

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Just my tuppenceworth... 😜...

Copolymer is marketing-speak for nylon. Fluorocarbon and nylon are comparable materials with different properties, 'Copolymer' is nonsensical in this respect.

Col

What you'' learn from this and other threads is that Cap'n F is more knowledgeable than a chemist, (in actual fact he doesn't like the word copolymer and like Donald Trump says is isn't real).

"A copolymer is a polymer derived from more than one species of monomer. The polymerization of monomers into copolymers is called copolymerization. Copolymers obtained by copolymerization of two monomer species are sometimes called bipolymers."

Polymer is the correct name for what we tend call plastic. The plastic we call 'nylon' is a polymer. Nylon is a brand name, a marketing name for plastic, created by Du Pont in the 1930s.
 
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