When should you use Fluorocarbon or Co-polymer?

[LukeNZ]

Aye, I noted someone upthread was recommended to use 12 lb Maxima on one of the Irish loughs. I thought WTF? I use 6 lb Maxima on the salmon, seatrout and ferox lochs. Never come close to being broken on it. I think my 7-weight rod would break before 6 lb Maxima did. I got in a situation last year when I was trying to lever a salmon out from under the boat, and I had the rod bent into a circle and I was looking at it and was worrying it was going to break. The fish gave up and came out from under the boat and we netted it. I thought, well, if you can do that with 6 lb Maxima, when would you need to go heavier???

Col

Says a lot for choice of rod too. Going a foot longer and a line weight lighter would benefit many a fly fisher.

I use 8lb. Maxima green for everything, because all my fishing pretty much is 2 handed trout spey. The interesting thing is, thst I still catch lots of small fish as well as the more usual 2-5lb'ers.

Many would be surprisef to see a 1/2lb fish on the end of a large 100mm streamer. It Happens a lot, when it happens at all; and you wish the small fish would just fark orf, to give the bigger fish a look in!

 

[taffy1]

I've yet to see a nail put in by a screwdriver, hammers can put in a screw, certain things, obviously do a certain job.

 

[LukeNZ]

W

I've yet to see a nail put in by a screwdriver, hammers can put in a screw, certain things, obviously do a certain job.

Wow, you're up late, or up very early Taffy!

Obviously, I am not targeting small fish with huge streamers; they are "by-catch"; I am hoping to attract fish looking for a bigger meal, autumn.

I was illustrating, that small fish don't necessarily need really light tippets and tiny flies. They will often, if present, have a go at something whistling past them irresistibly. It seems sometimes that when one does it, they all will!

 

[Wee Jimmy]

"Hoppers" were first used to great success in the Benson & Hedges International Final by Grafham Water Fly Fishers by John Moore etc...........the Bristol team just took the fly and method back to Chew/Blagdon/Barrows etc.....and made it famous..as they became known as "Bristol Hoppers"

Slightly off topic.....and probably boring for most but it's a bit of history about the pattern...

I don’t think it was the Bristol guys themselves who coined the phrase Rob.I remember Horsey giving John Moore and Bob Worts due credit for the hopper and bits patterns in one of his “ dry fly revolution” articles in TF.
Fair to say though ,the Chew and Blagdon fishers certainly took the method to a different level ,presentation wise in particular.Double Strength and finer leaders in general, played a major part in all of that.

 

[JohnH]

Not sure flurocarbon makes much difference to the environment, if we take our waste home with us as we should, and use the correct Breaking Strain of leader in the first place to avoid being snapped up.

Maybe driving a 150 mile round trip for a fishing session, getting in a plane to fish some far flung destination, keeping the thermostat up high in the house or buying sandwiches and a plastic bottle of drink from the shop each day has a bigger effect on the environment.....

Your points are well made as ever Rob, but two things;

First, it's a big "IF" about taking waste home. I am sure you, like everyone else on the forum, are careful in this respect but not all anglers are, as Paul commented. I have a set of Sierra DVDs at home featuring Hywel Morgan...it was a competition prize from the old Total Flyfishing magazine. Don't want to blacken Hywel's reputation, but casually discarding bits of fluoro on the bankside at Draycote as he chats away about leader construction is not a great look.

Second, an accumulation of small changes in the way all of us treat the planet is surely worthwhile ?

 

[cammy]

My sadly departed boat partner used to use drennan double strength and got broken off regulalry. I have tried it and tried to tell him it was generally guff, if he wanted fine and invisible get a reasonable fluoro brand. He never did.
One day on Lochenbrek he went 5-0 up and I was getting a bit of stick, as you do. The day ended 16-8 to me, 8lb ultragreen fishing a blob and a nomad on a fast inter, 6lb with two suspender buzzers on the floater.
Thinking back to when I was a lad I only ever had maxima chameleon various breaking strains from 3lb to 15lb for all of my fishing, sometimes even recycled having come off a spinning reel when it was replaced for making up casts. (Anyone remembef making up casts, you put them on a cast holder in a cast wallet?)
Might just be my memory but don't think I caught any less in those days.

 

[Wee Jimmy]

My sadly departed boat partner used to use drennan double strength and got broken off regulalry. I have tried it and tried to tell him it was generally guff, if he wanted fine and invisible get a reasonable fluoro brand. He never did.
One day on Lochenbrek he went 5-0 up and I was getting a bit of stick, as you do. The day ended 16-8 to me, 8lb ultragreen fishing a blob and a nomad on a fast inter, 6lb with two suspender buzzers on the floater.
Thinking back to when I was a lad I only ever had maxima chameleon various breaking strains from 3lb to 15lb for all of my fishing, sometimes even recycled having come off a spinning reel when it was replaced for making up casts. (Anyone remembef making up casts, you put them on a cast holder in a cast wallet?)
Might just be my memory but don't think I caught any less in those days.

Cammy, I accept there were and still are, folk who could not get on with double strength. There are many reasons why that was the case but it was not because it was guff or useless. For those of us who learnt how to handle it and use its qualities in situations where a bit more subtlety is required, it was nothing short of a revelation.

 

[cammy]

Cammy, I accept there were and still are, folk who could not get on with double strength. There are many reasons why that was the case but it was not because it was guff or useless. For those of us who learnt how to handle it and use its qualities in situations where a bit more subtlety is required, it was nothing short of a revelation.

I wouldn't disagree with your opinion or experience, I was just trying to give an example by way of a days fishing and my experience, where high tech was not needed and low tech did just fine.

 

[PaulD]

For those of us who learnt how to handle it and use its qualities in situations where a bit more subtlety is required, it was nothing short of a revelation.

It is the 'learning to handle it' that is the key element. Years ago when I was heavily into winter grayling fishing the recommended mono, as used by the Czech Team, was Stroft GTM, and fabulous stuff it was and still is . . . however, there were endless people who decried it's knot strength and reliability . . . what it actually revealed were peoples inability to tie consistent, appropriate knots in relation to the diameter of the line they were using and size of hooks. I have a long term fishing buddy, a hugely clever man, a professor even,' but he displays the mechanical dexterity of a 'cow handling a musket'.His knots, leaders and tackle set-up is 'agricultural' at best. He gets broken regularly and thinks he's unlucky.

 

[Wee Jimmy]

I wouldn't disagree with your opinion or experience, I was just trying to give an example by way of a days fishing and my experience, where high tech was not needed and low tech did just fine.

Sure there are plenty of times it wont matter just as there are other times when it definitely does. That's why it pays to have them all at our disposal , using the different properties of each type to suit all of the situations we find ourselves in.

 

[glueman]

I've yet to see a nail put in by a screwdriver, hammers can put in a screw, certain things, obviously do a certain job.

I you can put a nail in with a brumigem screwdriver

 

[Rob Edmunds]

I accept your point John, we must all do what we can to save our local environment and also the planet.....but I fear the battle is lost and it's almost just a brief postponement of the inevitable as the globsl population expands and demand for resources continues to grow....

And I'm sorry I can't stop using what I consider the best product ( flurocarbon) for the job....but I will try and offset this by picking up rubbish at the reservoir and making sandwiches, etc ....

As regards Drennan Double Strength - I didn't like the stuff back in the 80s and early 90s, but I now accept this was more " operator error" than product failure

Back then I wasn't using it correctly as my tackle wasn't balanced and I was still very rough round the edges as regards fishing small and delicate..... I wasn't good enough to get the best out of the material - simple as that.

I recognise that now, and view it as a missed opportunity......

There may be newer and better products on the market now but Double Strength was very much a game changer and should be recognised as such..

 

[codyarrow]

I you can put a nail in with a brumigem screwdriver

+1 on that. I've put nails up to 2 " in with a screwdriver.

 

[Cap'n Fishy]

As regards Drennan Double Strength - I didn't like the stuff back in the 80s and early 90s, but I now accept this was more " operator error" than product failure

Back then I wasn't using it correctly as my tackle wasn't balanced and I was still very rough round the edges as regards fishing small and delicate..... I wasn't good enough to get the best out of the material - simple as that.

I recognise that now, and view it as a missed opportunity......

There may be newer and better products on the market now but Double Strength was very much a game changer and should be recognised as such..

Rob - maybe you could get that point across to BobP. He ignores Jimmy and me and will not listen to a word we say. If we ask him a question, he will not reply to either of us. He refuses to accept anything we say on any subject that contradicts his own declarations - such as where he declared that Drennan Double Strength breaks when you sneeze on it.

It is a paradox that fluoro can sink at 3 times the rate of nylon and yet can float worse than nylon. He will not accept that this is possible... but it is!

Col

 

[Cap'n Fishy]

I accept your point John, we must all do what we can to save our local environment and also the planet.....but I fear the battle is lost and it's almost just a brief postponement of the inevitable as the globsl population expands and demand for resources continues to grow....

And I'm sorry I can't stop using what I consider the best product ( flurocarbon) for the job....but I will try and offset this by picking up rubbish at the reservoir and making sandwiches, etc ....

And here we are, worrying ourselves about whether a foot of broken-off fluoro is worse than a foot of broken-off nylon or not...

 

[scobo]

A pretty shocking picture Col, as are these .....

 

[JohnH]

And here we are, worrying ourselves about whether a foot of broken-off fluoro is worse than a foot of broken-off nylon or not...

Col, the fact that awful waste and pollution issues exist elsewhere in the world doesn't give us licence to be slapdash in our own activities. Some anglers are absolute shockers in this respect and do our cause, and any claims we may have to being an environmentally sensitive pursuit, no good at all.

 

[Jeltz]

To sum up, use whatever line you have attached to your fly line.

 

[Cap'n Fishy]

Col, the fact that awful waste and pollution issues exist elsewhere in the world doesn't give us licence to be slapdash in our own activities. Some anglers are absolute shockers in this respect and do our cause, and any claims we may have to being an environmentally sensitive pursuit, no good at all.

For sure, John, I am not disputing anything you say. Here we are, arguing over whether it is acceptable to use fluorocarbon, and the next time I visit the waterside I am quite likely to find umpteen yards of discarded leader material, simply thrown away. The person who threw it away (one of thousands similarly-minded) would not have been bothered in the slightest, whether it was nylon or fluorocarbon... is kind of my point... if you get my drift...

Are we farting against thunder?

Col

 

[JohnH]

For sure, John, I am not disputing anything you say. Here we are, arguing over whether it is acceptable to use fluorocarbon, and the next time I visit the waterside I am quite likely to find umpteen yards of discarded leader material, simply thrown away. The person who threw it away (one of thousands similarly-minded) would not have been bothered in the slightest, whether it was nylon or fluorocarbon... is kind of my point... if you get my drift...

Are we farting against thunder?

Col

Maybe yes, maybe no...but don't stop trying, is my point. Ever onwards !