Who Makes Fly Lines?

suzuki15hp

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That's great information, thanks, can we bat this about a bit?

Are you saying that Pure has acquired Northern?

Northern bought the fly line manufacturing facility from Pure/Shakespeare in Redditch and took on the key staff. Then when the court case came about, due to the UK plant falsely branding and selling lines from other brands, they ceased manufacture in the UK and all manufacture comes from Canada now.
 

campsiefisher

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Who makes who's fly lines and who owns what can be a bit of a minefield, as things change and develop, and angling brands try other manufacturers products, it used to take a great deal of time and expense to make separate dies for each fly line profile, nowadays it's computerised and with a few computer keystrokes you have your end product.

This may be another reason why companies like MatchCatch can produce good fly lines, it may have nothing at all to do with stealing and/or copying Rio's or anyone else's profiles, as fly line production has become less expensive and somewhat easier than before.

Then manufacturers, as you have seen, change hands. Cortland were bought over in 2012 by a group of investors and I've since heard some anglers say that the quality has fallen on their lines (I've no personal experience of that as it's been many years since i bought a Cortland, only what I've seen or heard).

As I said earlier Orvis bought Scientific Anglers and Ross reels. However if you look around you'll see that Mayfly Outdoors own Ross reels.

This is because around 2 or 3 years after that Orvis sold Ross Reels to Mayfly. The information is there but you sometimes have to dig deep for it.

Best regards
Jim
 

original cormorant

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22m sounds like 3/4 inch pipe to me.

I'm curious, at the time of the court case NS manufactured for Snowbee. After that I don't know.

How sound is the info that 22m only have two employees? I am very sceptical that a business with only 2 employeees could manufacture and sell flylines. I also note that Spartan flylines retail for £20, I'm sceptical that lines manufactured,spooled and packaged in the uk could sell for £20 ( https://www.walkersoftrowell.com/spartan-traditional-allrounder-fly-lines.html ) including vat, retailer margin, distributor margin and feeding the makers children.

You are showing 3M as a manufacturer SA were owned (I believe from inception) by 3M but I'd be pretty confident that 3M didnt retain any flyline making capacity when they sold SA to Orvis. You currently show Leeda as made by 3M, I suggest anything identified as 3M should be SA.
 

original cormorant

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Pure owned Shakespeare, Shakespeare sold their line making operation to Northern in 2009. Hence Pure sold line making to NS.
 

original cormorant

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A bit of googling suggests that SA made Sage lines but it is now RIO (which Sage’s owner bought??). Same source says SA make Loop lines and Cortland makes Teeny (was Rio). .
I don't think "Teeny (was Rio)" can be true as Rio didn't start in business until 1990 and Jim Teeny was selling his own flylines in 1980, so someone was making lines for him for 10 years before Rio was born.

Line makers tend to be cagey about who they make for but I suspect that Rio does less OEM work than others.
 

campsiefisher

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22m were formerly Redditch fly line a quick check on Co house will show that both current Director/Secretary are the same for each company, you should be aware that because the registrar only shows 2 positions in the company does not mean that is the total number of employees, although they do seem to have a relatively low turnover.

3m were always the parent company of Scientific Anglers, they are a multinational conglomerate who make around 40 billion dollars a year, producing 60,000 products ranging from sandpaper to sellotape to medical and electrical products, i'm sure we could split hairs, or hazard guesses all day, as to who was directly involved in the line making process, so just better off for the sake of the thread to say it was Scientific Anglers, as that's the name best known by anglers.

Teeny lines as far as i know were always produced by Cortland.

Best regards
Jim
 

tangled

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So, do 3M still make fly lines or not?

22M is a micro business with negative reserves and capital assets of £2,303. Doesn't look like much of a business to me.
 

tangled

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Anyone want to start an own brand flyline business?

Buy 10 of these Fish Hawk lines at from Alibaba for $4.20 (or buy enough and they're $0.10). Front and rear loops included.

 

tangled

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Interesting interpretation of the AFTM scale!.

330grains / 21.4 g would be an AFTM 11 WT

Picky, picky....

But seriously, there are literally hundreds of lines on Alibaba for a couple of dollars. Alibaba is just the public face of China wholesale, if you know what you're doing you can get high quality production in China and stick your own label on it without having to mess with string and smelly chemicals.
 

jeffhirst

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Anyone want to start an own brand flyline business?

Buy 10 of these Fish Hawk lines at from Alibaba for $4.20 (or buy enough and they're $0.10). Front and rear loops included.

Tangled ...have you got the link in Alibaba.....just asking for a friend. Thanks
 

tangled

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jeffhirst

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Thanks Tangled....actually I like modding flylines to suit me and these seem ideal at the price to play around with and cut up and rejoin the head lengths...a very cheap option!
 

original cormorant

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So, do 3M still make fly lines or not?

22M is a micro business with negative reserves and capital assets of £2,303. Doesn't look like much of a business to me.
You can be certain that 3M no longer make flylines - perhaps my previous statement was too subtle. Big businesses often develop products that promote the use of materials they make , technologies they have developed or special knowledge and then periodically have a clear out of these non-core activities when they are seen to have reached their potential. Scientific Anglers looks a great example of this model, being developed by 3M then sold on to Orvis.

You stated that 22M have only 2 employees, what's the source of this fact or is it that you took the two officers of the company to be its sole employees. I remain sceptical that 22M/Redditch are a manufacturer in the UK. A photo of their factory would help to dispel my scepticism.

There have been some statements that there are 3 US based makers - don't forget Monic, and I think there may be a 5th.
 

tangled

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You can be certain that 3M no longer make flylines - perhaps my previous statement was too subtle. Big businesses often develop products that promote the use of materials they make , technologies they have developed or special knowledge and then periodically have a clear out of these non-core activities when they are seen to have reached their potential. Scientific Anglers looks a great example of this model, being developed by 3M then sold on to Orvis.

It seems more likely than not to me that SA was their fly line unit and they sold it all. Though there are others here that think differently. Unless it can be shown otherwise, I'm deleting 3M.

You stated that 22M have only 2 employees, what's the source of this fact or is it that you took the two officers of the company to be its sole employees.

It's from page 4 of their accounts.

“The average number of persons employed by the company during the year amounted to 2.”

It seems highly likely that those two employees are also the two directors, Samantha and Mark Webb.

I remain sceptical that 22M/Redditch are a manufacturer in the UK. A photo of their factory would help to dispel my scepticism.

Like I say, their fixed assets are precisely £2,303, which doesn't strike me as an amount that would support a factory. Or even a home office.

There have been some statements that there are 3 US based makers - don't forget Monic, and I think there may be a 5th.

You tease.

Monic is already listed.
 
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tangled

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A friend of mine runs https://www.targetfly.co.uk/ in Redditch. He started marketing ice fly lines in 2017. They are manufactured in Bromsgrove by some one who used to work for Shakespeare

Hmmm, didn't get their web site, no prices and I couldn't find out how to buy anything - just me?

Are you sure they're manufactured in the UK, not imported and rebadged?
 

bobnudd

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Hmmm, didn't get their web site, no prices and I couldn't find out how to buy anything - just me?

Are you sure they're manufactured in the UK, not imported and rebadged?
Yes odd that I will mention it to him when next I see him. I know he's been up dating it lately. Yes the lines are made in Bromsgrove he is also looking into manufacturing rods and reels in Redditch again. I had a look at the rods acouple of weeks ago and they look good,they are fiberglass. And he's in talks with one of the old employees from Yong's about the design of the reels
 

tangled

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^^^ if you can find the name of the company we'd all be interested.
 
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