Why does a floppy rod still cast well?...

D

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Buy a full set, different lengths, different actions / stiffness and tell your wife you really need different tools for different jobs. :)
 

loxie

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I'll bow to your wisdom on salmon. Soft hands and skill for rainbows. A stiff rod is no excuse for breaking off 4lb leader.
It's nothing to do with breaking off it's about pulling the hook.
 

Overmiwadrers

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I have a Bruce and Walker river fly bought it new about 25 years ago. Compared to modern rods some may call it floppy I would call it a medium actioned beautiful river rod . Casts lovely open loops when I am fishing teams of spiders on medium rivers . In the autumn and winter it is great for close nymphing when the soft action cushions a fishes lunge on short lines . I don't use it often but on its day it beats more modern stiffer / faster carbon . Its the only rod I have used so much and so long that I had to get the handle replaced

O M W
 

ohanzee

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That's right a good top caster can change casting stroke lengths and tracking to accommodate different rod actions. It's all down to the individual. On the other hand some people can't adjust no matter how they try and that's were individual rod preferences come in.

This is such a good and true statement, I'd even go as far as saying becoming 'good' at casting in general is breaking through this very limitation.
 

Fuffa

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Hows about several guys with collections of a wide range of action rods get together and do some vids of comparison tests of the kind of thoughts that people have posted about? Seen some on USA glass rods on the tube.
 
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Hardrar

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Hows about several guys with collections of a wide range of action rods get together and do some vids of comparison tests of the kind of thoughts that people have posted about? Seen some on USA glass rods on the tube.
The issue with this is, ( no offence) some guys or gals, can cast a fast stiff pokey rod better than a slower through action rod and other casters the opposite, so the trial just becomes a trial of the caster not the rods. A few Anglers can cast any auctioned rod well!
A lot of people who cut their teeth on modern fast action carbon rods, simply cannot cope or handle the totally different approach needed with a soft through action rod’, loads of anglers are currently buying modern “in vogue” glass rods and then quickly selling them as they cannot make any sense of them.
I learned to cast with hollow glass and used to compete in distance competitions when younger and never really liked the steeliness or fragility of carbon and have gone back to glass and find it much more enjoyable in all aspects. I’ve let other anglers try out my glass rods and they just can’t put a good line out, even though they are very good casters with modern carbon.
I have fellow anglers ask me how I put out such a long line with a single back cast, as they are “dyed in the wool” overhead casters who then throw their arms up in despair when I show them the rudiments of Skagit, sh Spey, Switch and jump roll.
At the end of the day it’s purely personal preference, as all Anglers are very biomechanically different and as such, have individually different needs for what rod and action suits them best.
 

pati

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The issue with this is, ( no offence) some guys or gals, can cast a fast stiff pokey rod better than a slower through action rod and other casters the opposite, so the trial just becomes a trial of the caster not the rods. A few Anglers can cast any auctioned rod well!
A lot of people who cut their teeth on modern fast action carbon rods, simply cannot cope or handle the totally different approach needed with a soft through action rod’, loads of anglers are currently buying modern “in vogue” glass rods and then quickly selling them as they cannot make any sense of them.
I learned to cast with hollow glass and used to compete in distance competitions when younger and never really liked the steeliness or fragility of carbon and have gone back to glass and find it much more enjoyable in all aspects. I’ve let other anglers try out my glass rods and they just can’t put a good line out, even though they are very good casters with modern carbon.
I have fellow anglers ask me how I put out such a long line with a single back cast, as they are “dyed in the wool” overhead casters who then throw their arms up in despair when I show them the rudiments of Skagit, sh Spey, Switch and jump roll.
At the end of the day it’s purely personal preference, as all Anglers are very biomechanically different and as such, have individually different needs for what rod and action suits them best.

Casting a full flex actionned rod consistently and accurately is a much more technically advanced game than the same with a stiffer rod. That said if too stiff and timing is off, then you re doomed too!!!
 

Vintage Badger

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If you can cast a soft action rod really well there is so many advantages compared to fishing with a stiff fast action rod especially for rivers and small stream fishing.
Another thing that amuses me is when people say that split cane rods are heavy, slow and floppy. Truth is, they vary, particularly shorter length, modern cane rods. I have a 6' 6" impregnated split cane brook rod from the late 1990s that weighs just over 2 ounces and casts like a little laser in comparison to some of the 1950s 8' 6" and 9' cane rods I have. So stereotyping cane rods is akin to saying all carbon fly rods are fast and stiff.
 

Overmiwadrers

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I struggle with some of the terms in use , Floppy / soft / through action / full action. It is as if they are all the same thing . I have a good selection of small stream rods . I would say very few of them are fast action. To me the nearest would be a sage TXL . My favourites are rods that load easily on the back cast but have a fairly fast recovery. That is how I perceive them and they work for me. A couple of examples would be the Sage Circa which I adore and others have been known to pick up and say to noodly. Also the older hardy 7ft featherweight a rod that I beleive is in a class of its own on small streams. Easy loading and a joy to cast. now a older hardy 7ft 3wt I have is very similar but the blank recovery is much slower and I seem to need that bit of extra effort on the forward cast , I have had a number of WInston B2T , DIfferent action again I never seemed to gell with the them. I love the Orvis superfines they arent fast and yet they work beautifully. Truth is I like fishing rather than casting rods , my experience and opinion is that the better fishing rods are not fast ones. I suppose the nearest things I have to fast rods are a couple of Greys XD salt for the tropics , I bet some of you guys think they arent fast at all. Anyway just saying like that bracketing all softer rods as floppy doesnt really work...

O MW
 
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pati

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I struggle with some of the terms in use , Floppy / soft / through action / full action. It is as if they are all the same thing . I have a good selection of small stream rods . I would say very few of them are fast action. To me the nearest would be a sage TXL . My favourites are rods that load easily on the back cast but have a fairly fast recovery. That is how I perceive them and they work for me. A couple of examples would be the Sage Circa which I adore and others have been known to pick up and say to noodly. Also the older hardy 7ft featherweight a rod that I beleive is in a class of its own on small streams. Easy loading and a joy to cast. now a older hardy 7ft 3wt I have is very similar but the blank recovery is much slower and I seem to need that bit of extra effort on the forward cast , I have had a number of WInston B2T , DIfferent action again I never seemed to gell with the them. I love the Orvis superfines they arent fast and yet they work beautifully. Truth is I like fishing rather than casting rods , my experience and opinion is that the better fishing rods are not fast ones. I suppose the nearest things I have to fast rods are a couple of Greys XD salt for the tropics , I bet some of you guys think they arent fast at all. Anyway just saying like that bracketing all softer rods as floppy doesnt really work...

O MW

May I say based on your preferences as per your post , the best fishing tools are fast, yet not stiff ;-)

fast and sharp (no vibration no counter end,) recovery are definitely a criteria we should all agree on.

Stiffness (ie. How much does the rod bend - from full to tip flex), is much more a matter of preference.

And yes you can have a fast recovery full flex rod ;-) admittedly though stiff rods will more easily have a faster recovery than full flex rods. That said, fast recovery is wanted, fastest recovery not necessarily ;-) Where is the inflexion point is largely a matter of personal preference I believe
 

Overmiwadrers

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May I say based on your preferences as per your post , the best fishing tools are fast, yet not stiff ;-)

fast and sharp (no vibration no counter end,) recovery are definitely a criteria we should all agree on.

Stiffness (ie. How much does the rod bend - from full to tip flex), is much more a matter of preference.

And yes you can have a fast recovery full flex rod ;-) admittedly though stiff rods will more easily have a faster recovery than full flex rods. That said, fast recovery is wanted, fastest recovery not necessarily ;-) Where is the inflexion point is largely a matter of personal preference I believe
Yes you can say that but I dont actually agree with that. Your reply does however demonstrate part of what I was trying to say about the thread . and please this is not a criticism of you but there is way to much technical mumbo jumbo spoken around fly fishing ( especially rods) . There are fishing rods some are very bendy and some arent . They are all fishing rods and all have value and all catch fish. What threads like this do is generally confuse the hell out of inexperienced anglers . I was just trying to put things in context. However I know all you casting nerds love threads like this . I shall leave the thread and watch from a safe distance at least 50m out of range of most of you apart from maybe a couple....

O M W
 

Vintage Badger

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Yes you can say that but I dont actually agree with that. Your reply does however demonstrate part of what I was trying to say about the thread . and please this is not a criticism of you but there is way to much technical mumbo jumbo spoken around fly fishing ( especially rods) . There are fishing rods some are very bendy and some arent . They are all fishing rods and all have value and all catch fish. What threads like this do is generally confuse the hell out of inexperienced anglers . I was just trying to put things in context. However I know all you casting nerds love threads like this . I shall leave the thread and watch from a safe distance at least 50m out of range of most of you apart from maybe a couple....

O M W
In the 1990s, when it came to fly rods, I used to make the distinction between fishing rods and casting rods, as some of the modern 'fast/er' carbon rods in those days were only really fit for casting... catch a fish and you'd feel very little through your rod hand, other than the rod moving about. Contrast that with playing a fish on a split cane rod and I could feel every twitch and movement right through the handle of the rod. Now that to me is a fishing rod.

Modern day carbon fly rods have gone some way to improve the 'feedback' they give to the angler, but I wouldn't be surprised if some could still be better described as casting rods.
 

ohanzee

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I bet some of you guys think they arent fast at all. Anyway just saying like that bracketing all softer rods as floppy doesnt really work...

It's true, Pati just explained the difference I think, which is what you experience, 'floppy' is what older really bad cane and fiberglass rods were, there were also shorter stiff and faster ones, I personally like casting softer(not floppy) rods, I just find stiffer works better on an open loch from the bank, I reckon the place decides which action works rather than personal preference or 'suits style' or whatever, the reason it becomes personal preference I think is because it works in the situation.
 

ohanzee

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Modern day carbon fly rods have gone some way to improve the 'feedback' they give to the angler, but I wouldn't be surprised if some could still be better described as casting rods.

I hate the term but I know what you mean, imagine a quiet windless evening and you are waded in a medium sized pool in a river, you are within one smooth lift and lay from the furthest rise and you have gone so stealthily that one could rise closer, you need a wand that slowly peels without effort or sound.

Now come with me to my normal, you just climbed half a mountain to open moorland, wind is howling, never been and you take your chances on what you find, which could be waves or pesky heather rising behind..or both, the first 40' out is 6 inches deep and fish are starting to rise bout 60' out, you need a rod that will clear the back drop angle and get out to where fish are without pulling a loop that the wind blows over, the priorities you had on the quiet river are suddenly different.

You know all this, just putting a different angle on it.
 

Overmiwadrers

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It's true, Pati just explained the difference I think, which is what you experience, 'floppy' is what older really bad cane and fiberglass rods were, there were also shorter stiff and faster ones, I personally like casting softer(not floppy) rods, I just find stiffer works better on an open loch from the bank, I reckon the place decides which action works rather than personal preference or 'suits style' or whatever, the reason it becomes personal preference I think is because it works in the situation.
I can agree with that , apart from a local chalk stream though I usually fish in very restricted environments, back casts are a luxury
O M W
 

Dingbat

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In the 1990s, when it came to fly rods, I used to make the distinction between fishing rods and casting rods, as some of the modern 'fast/er' carbon rods in those days were only really fit for casting... catch a fish and you'd feel very little through your rod hand, other than the rod moving about. Contrast that with playing a fish on a split cane rod and I could feel every twitch and movement right through the handle of the rod. Now that to me is a fishing rod.

Modern day carbon fly rods have gone some way to improve the 'feedback' they give to the angler, but I wouldn't be surprised if some could still be better described as casting rods.
I have a 7# TCR - catch a small fish on (under a foot, or more specifically capable of high-frequency movements) it and you know all about it, a larger one, not so much.
 

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