Wind = waves?

Cap'n Fishy

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Be aware that travelling with the wave can be very dangerous if you are moving too slowly. The stern will be held down in the water by the engine and if the waves are travelling faster than the boat , they could swamp the boat .
Also ,sometimes the boat will Surf with the wave - this can be a bit unnerving if it catches you by surprise.
When travelling with the wave , it pays to keep an eye on what's coming behind you too.

Hairiest experience I ever had in a boat was a 'straight downwind' affair. It was getting off Chew Valley Res of all places. Unforecast 50 mph winds came up the Bristol Channel while we were out. We were in the shelter of Villace Bay, but had to travel straight down the wind to get back to the dock. The boat sat in the trough all the way back, going at the exact same speed as the wave, with a standing crest about 4 feet above my boat partner's head, behind the engine! Of course he's looking forwards and couldn't see it, but I'm facing the stern and couldn't take my eyes off it!

We had to get turned to get in at the back of the dock when we got to it - thankfully it was out of the worst of it, but it was still a struggle to get docked and get the boat unloaded, what with waves breaking over the pontoon...

3558.jpg


Col
 

catzrob

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Hairiest experience I ever had in a boat was a 'straight downwind' affair. It was getting off Chew Valley Res of all places. Unforecast 50 mph winds came up the Bristol Channel while we were out. We were in the shelter of Villace Bay, but had to travel straight down the wind to get back to the dock. The boat sat in the trough all the way back, going at the exact same speed as the wave, with a standing crest about 4 feet above my boat partner's head, behind the engine! Of course he's looking forwards and couldn't see it, but I'm facing the stern and couldn't take my eyes off it!

We had to get turned to get in at the back of the dock when we got to it - thankfully it was out of the worst of it, but it was still a struggle to get docked and get the boat unloaded, what with waves breaking over the pontoon...

3558.jpg


Col

That's a remarkable photo!
 

mackiia1

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Hairiest experience I ever had in a boat was a 'straight downwind' affair. It was getting off Chew Valley Res of all places. Unforecast 50 mph winds came up the Bristol Channel while we were out. We were in the shelter of Villace Bay, but had to travel straight down the wind to get back to the dock. The boat sat in the trough all the way back, going at the exact same speed as the wave, with a standing crest about 4 feet above my boat partner's head, behind the engine! Of course he's looking forwards and couldn't see it, but I'm facing the stern and couldn't take my eyes off it!

We had to get turned to get in at the back of the dock when we got to it - thankfully it was out of the worst of it, but it was still a struggle to get docked and get the boat unloaded, what with waves breaking over the pontoon...

3558.jpg


Col

Looks nasty Col - and not a nice experience . I have been caught out too at times.
My first time experiencing the full fury of Corrib was while fishing in a sheltered bay - Salthouse - one day in August a few years back..
A SE wind got up and while it got a bit breezy in Salthouse , we had no idea how bad the main Lough was getting.
When we turned the corner of Inishmacatreer Island on the bay back we were met by a wall of water running up the Lough.
Thankfully we were heading into the wave but it took us about an hour to get back to base. Massive rolling waves were running parallel to the shoreline and huge boulders were seemingly appearing from nowhere in the wave troughs
My friend was on the engine trying to navigate through the rocks while I was on my knees bailing the water which was breaking in over the front of the boat. Stuff was floating around in the bottom of the boat by the time we got back.
We were absolutely soaked to the skin and exhausted . I'll never forget it.

It turned out we could have avoided it all by going through the gap in the causeway connecting Innishmacatreer and the mainland - we never even thought about it.:(🤫
 
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mackiia1

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Talking about this has made me think , would it be a good idea for it to be mandatory for Anglers to have completed a basic boat handling safety course before being left out on the water?
I have never done one and I don't know anyone who has.
I'm not even sure if this is workable but it does seem crazy that anyone can hire/buy a boat and just head out on the water.
 

shpeil

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Well, since we're sharing horror stories...

My dice with death was when I was about 13 and out fishing for mackerel in the Firth of Clyde. The waves weren't breaking but they were pretty big - a couple of metres at any rate - and travelling to the shore. We'd been blown back into the shore pretty quick and were heading out again. I was facing the stern where the "responsible adult" was in charge of the motor. I just saw the expression on his face as he tried to power us up a bigger than usual wave and next thing I knew the boat was awash with foamy water from one gunwale to the other. Remarkably, it seemed to disappear... but on lifting the floor hatch we saw where it had gone. We headed back. No lifejackets in those days. So bloody stupid. I'm in no rush to go back out to sea.

And yea, I've picked up a few pointers since then re heading downwind but even so, fishing is supposed to be fun, and it's no fun if you have to row to lend the engine a hand, to keep up with the big waves that are chasing you down! Hence my original question - what sort of wind speed to avoid.

I'd be well up for a boat handling course if there was one.
 

Wee Jimmy

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×
Talking about this has made me think , would it be a good idea for it to be mandatory for Anglers to have completed a basic boat handling safety course before being left out on the water?
I have never done one and I don't know anyone who has.
I'm not even sure if this is workable but it does seem crazy that anyone can hire/buy a boat and just head out on the water.

I think a boat handling course would be a great idea and if you don’t have a certificate ,you can’t hire a boat, simple...👍
 

Cap'n Fishy

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I think a boat handling course would be a great idea and if you don’t have a certificate ,you can’t hire a boat, simple...👍

We've said that a few times on here over the years. You only have to have a day out on the Lake of Menteith to see all human life struggling to work out which end of a boat differs from the other. :whistle:

If a course was to be put together, it would want to include a chapter on 'Boat Fishing Etiquette'. You could write that whole chapter by having a day on Menteith. o_O
 

mackiia1

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We've said that a few times on here over the years. You only have to have a day out on the Lake of Menteith to see all human life struggling to work out which end of a boat differs from the other. :whistle:

If a course was to be put together, it would want to include a chapter on 'Boat Fishing Etiquette'. You could write that whole chapter by having a day on Menteith. o_O
Not only Menteith Col.
Corrib is 44,000 acres - and as big as the fcuking thing is , there are still Gobshites who will drive in front of your drift.
Worst I have seen though was on Draycote - I had to retrive my line on one occasion so as one guy didn't drive over it.
I've no problem with a guy who finds himself in a tight spot or in a tricky situation doing it , as long as he raises his hand to acknowledge and apologise for it.
But where there is plenty of room , it's just pig ignorant.
 
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Cap'n Fishy

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Not only Menteith Col.
Corrib is 44,000 acres - and as big as the fcuking thing is , there are still Gobshites who will drive in front of your drift.
Worst I have seen though was on Draycote - I had to retrive my line on one occasion so as one guy didn't drive over it.
I've no problem with a guy who finds himself in a tight spot or in a tricky situation doing it , as long as he raises his hand to acknowledge and apologise for it.
But where there is plenty of room , it's just pig ignorant.

How about this one... John (Colliedog) and I having a day on Loch Shin...

It's 17 miles long. We were one of 2 boats that were out that day. Seventeen miles of water, with 2 boats on it. So, we start our first drift, going down the northwest shoreline. And the other boat comes out. Where does he start his drift? About 100 yards in front of us. No doubt if we had gone to him and remonstrated, he would have said, he was giving us 100 yards, which is 'in the rules'. Aye, well... we've got 17 miles of water, mate... both banks... :unsure:
 

mackiia1

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How about this one... John (Colliedog) and I having a day on Loch Shin...

It's 17 miles long. We were one of 2 boats that were out that day. Seventeen miles of water, with 2 boats on it. So, we start our first drift, going down the northwest shoreline. And the other boat comes out. Where does he start his drift? About 100 yards in front of us. No doubt if we had gone to him and remonstrated, he would have said, he was giving us 100 yards, which is 'in the rules'. Aye, well... we've got 17 miles of water, mate... both banks... :unsure:
Some guys are just ar5e holes .
I was on Corrib one day drifting into a small shallow bay when a boat came past us absolutely flat out about 30 yards in front of us.
He had loads of room to go past behind us but deliberately sped past in front of us.
D1ckhead.
He probably wanted to fish that spot as it's known for big trout .
He obviously knew the place well as you don't travel at that speed without being sure where you are going.
 

codyarrow

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How about this one... John (Colliedog) and I having a day on Loch Shin...

It's 17 miles long. We were one of 2 boats that were out that day. Seventeen miles of water, with 2 boats on it. So, we start our first drift, going down the northwest shoreline. And the other boat comes out. Where does he start his drift? About 100 yards in front of us. No doubt if we had gone to him and remonstrated, he would have said, he was giving us 100 yards, which is 'in the rules'. Aye, well... we've got 17 miles of water, mate... both banks... :unsure:

Or it is a compliment that they think you know your business. (y) :) Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. Personally I would have rammed then; although that may conflict with the boat handling safety course theory?
 

bobmiddlepoint

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Hence my original question - what sort of wind speed to avoid.

Max wind speed? It's horses for courses.
The vast bulk of my boat experience in on South Uist on very windswept but small lochs. By small I mean mainly 50 or 100 acres and the biggest with a fetch of a mile at most. I've been out in winds of 30mph more times than I can recall and often enough on days with a steady wind of 30mph gusting to 45mph (this recorded by the weather station on S. Uist). If we hadn't gone out in 30mph winds we would have spent whole weeks without fishing.
But I have no doubt that if I tried the same thing on Shin or Lomond or Corrib or Watten I would have drowned long ago!

A boat handling certificate would get my vote too. I was lucky that I spent a lot of time rowing around on English ressys before moving north but you do see far too many folk with no experience or idea. It is no wonder so many places use Pioneer boats, anything less indestructible would be taking a chance on a rocky water with a total novice.


Andy
 

colliedog

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Hairiest experience I ever had in a boat was a 'straight downwind' affair. It was getting off Chew Valley Res of all places. Unforecast 50 mph winds came up the Bristol Channel while we were out. We were in the shelter of Villace Bay, but had to travel straight down the wind to get back to the dock. The boat sat in the trough all the way back, going at the exact same speed as the wave, with a standing crest about 4 feet above my boat partner's head, behind the engine! Of course he's looking forwards and couldn't see it, but I'm facing the stern and couldn't take my eyes off it!

We had to get turned to get in at the back of the dock when we got to it - thankfully it was out of the worst of it, but it was still a struggle to get docked and get the boat unloaded, what with waves breaking over the pontoon...

3558.jpg


Col
I had a similar experience on Gladhouse. A big wind picking up whilst I was in the shelter of Mauldslie Bay. The surf downwind was fine but the 90o turn into the harbour was a bit hairy. For those that dont know it the harbour is tight in a corner of the dam and there is only a few yards of a channel between the breakwater and the dam.

With only an electric outboard I was really concerned that when I turned broadside I would be blown onto the dam wall. I made it by grazing the breakwater and sliding in. Still bumped the wall, but in the shelter of the harbour.

Plus one for a boat handling certificate.
 

Cap'n Fishy

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I had a similar experience on Gladhouse. A big wind picking up whilst I was in the shelter of Mauldslie Bay. The surf downwind was fine but the 90o turn into the harbour was a bit hairy. For those that dont know it the harbour is tight in a corner of the dam and there is only a few yards of a channel between the breakwater and the dam.

With only an electric outboard I was really concerned that when I turned broadside I would be blown onto the dam wall. I made it by grazing the breakwater and sliding in. Still bumped the wall, but in the shelter of the harbour.

That 90 degree turn with a 40 lb Minn Kota while surfing down the wind was the tricky moment we had getting off Beat 3 on Hope when the 40 mph northerly arrived suddenly. We were doing a rate of knots past 'salmon point' and wanted to turn left into the shelter of home bay, but the boat and the wave showed a distinct preference for keeping going, exactly the way we were. Although it was hairy, we were not in any danger of hitting stone walls. The same manoeuvre may well have been the undoing of those 2 guys who tragically lost their lives on Gladhouse a few years ago? The boat was found on the bottom, not far from the dam/harbour, and the wind was blowing straight into that corner.

Plus one for a boat handling certificate.

We forumites could have a go at putting together an 'Idiot's Guide to Boats and Boating'...
 

glueman

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Not in the UK but a few years back 3 miles or so out in the Java sea and the crew decided to decant petrol with a lit fag in his mouth. A bit scary
 

Wee Jimmy

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Without doubt Lomond has been the place for most of my “ never been so glad to get my feet on dry land” experiences. It can turn nasty in no time at all.One time there were three of us out in Angus’ 13 foot boat Little Tern.I hooked a grilse in nice conditions over at Luss on my old 11 foot Worcester boron.The rod didn’t have the backbone in it to get the fishes head up ,so it was taking longer to get in than it should have.Anyhoo, In the space of 15 minutes or so a big North wind blew up and was now thundering straight down the full length of the Loch to reach us. We had to travel down and across the wave for what seemed like an age to get to Balmaha and the sight of the wave peaks which must have been five foot above Angus head turned my blood cold.It felt like coming face to face with the devil himself, terrifying.
 

Cap'n Fishy

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Without doubt Lomond has been the place for most of my “ never been so glad to get my feet on dry land” experiences. It can turn nasty in no time at all.One time there were three of us out in Angus’ 13 foot boat Little Tern.I hooked a grilse in nice conditions over at Luss on my old 11 foot Worcester boron.The rod didn’t have the backbone in it to get the fishes head up ,so it was taking longer to get in than it should have.Anyhoo, In the space of 15 minutes or so a big North wind blew up and was now thundering straight down the full length of the Loch to reach us. We had to travel down and across the wave for what seemed like an age to get to Balmaha and the sight of the wave peaks which must have been five foot above Angus head turned my blood cold.It felt like coming face to face with the devil himself, terrifying.

Sounds like the same scenario as we had that day on Hope, only on a bigger scale (being Lomond and a much bigger loch) - in terms of it suddenly coming down from the north! Both lochs lie north/south with high hills and occasional mountains to the sides. Most days I have been on Hope the wind direction has been either southerly or northerly. East and west winds just get bent to fit the north/south lie and come round the hills to get up or down the loch. It was a strange forecast that day and we were expecting the big blow in the afternoon - we just didn't expect it to be quite so sudden. Windfinder Pro was saying something like:

07:00 = 3 mph
09:00 = 5 mph
11:00 = 3 mph
13:00 = 40 mph
15:00 = 45 mph
... etc

That must be a reflection of how it has to bend and build-up the wind to come down the valley??? :unsure:

So, we were thinking, fish the morning and come off at lunch time when we get the first signs of it kicking-off. We were ready to go as soon as we had a sign. We had a few false alarms when a breeze would get up, but they just died back to an almost flat calm - see photo upthread. So, we carried on, waiting for a sign. When it came, the sign was the 40 mph wind that came down the loch like someone had thrown a switch and turned on the wind machine! o_O I don't think I even stopped to wind in my line; just got the boat heading for home as soon as we saw it coming down towards us from Middle Bay.

Col
 

codyarrow

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The 'idiots guide to boat handling' needs something about engines and engine maintenance. Only time I have been in difficulties have been at sea. The first was a fairly well serviced engine that through no ones fault failed, the second was an impeller disintegration on my mates engine, which left us rowing with the Atlantic wanting to take us on a trip to the States. When we eventually got out of trouble I asked my mate when was the last time he serviced the engine and changed the impeller - you can guess the answer. A couple of hours maintenance and a £10 part could save your life.
 

Jedi

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Not sure if Loch Leven have any of their original boats these days? They were big and heavy clinker-builts that you always felt safe in, even in a big chop...

4955.jpg


They had no buoyancy tanks, though.

If the weather is not safe, the boatmen at Leven will probably not allow the boats out.

Col
They still have two of the old Leven boats left.
 
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