Ye Olde Enigma EM-G Rods.

Lewis Chessman

Well-known member
Points
38
Location
Isle of Lewis
My Enigma is a 3 piece 11' #5/6 and I thought it was one of the later ones but I don't really know as I picked it up second hand.

Can anyone tell from these photos what vintage it is?

Despite only being a #5/6 it has coped with loch sea trout up to 4lb and I'd be happy with bigger and grilse. I wouldn't say it was up to dealing with grilse or salmon in a river though unless on very open stretches with plenty of room.


Andy
Andy, to the best of my understanding your rod and mine are a later run of 1st Gen EMGs. All early rod photos I have seen, or descriptions thereof, have had an unpainted alloy tube with white sticker giving rod details plus the rods have "#X Line" rather than just "#X" as ours do and the green tube.
Given what Mr. Jones says, this suggests that our blanks are Chinese, not Japanese Daimaru. I hope to be able to compare the blank colours he describes some day but on line photos haven't yet helped there. Were the Chinese blanks still supplied by Carbotec? Probably, but it isn't yet proven

I pushed on with T&S to the end of 2005 today. There have been no ads for Carbotec and absolutely no mention of the EMGIII since my last sighting when it was newly release, this despite several 4 page rod tests featuring 20-odd different rods!

Also, I can't find Carbotec on the Company House website. Any clue why?
Edit:
Just adding this link to one Akimasa Daimaru for future ref. I don't know if Daimaru was an idividual or a large company but this gentleman did work with composites incl. graphite - and making connecting graphite rods .....
 
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sewinbasher

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Points
48
Location
North East Wales
Thank you, Blue Diamond. It's posts like these which spur me on to dig out the concrete evidence here, or about Gary Loomis's early companies, Caudle & Rivaz.......
I used to sell boron rods in the 1980s made for me by Owen Caudle to my own specs. I still use two regularly today, I have a 9' 6" 7wt and a 10' 6" 8wt that we developed as a boat rod for long casting but ended up as a decent grilse rod. The 9' 6" rod is through actioned and one of the best I've ever owned, ideally matched to a Wulff TT it could fish a nymph delicately under the rod tip and with a couple of false casts could drop a fly 25 yards out. I had put it away some years ago in favour of a succession of perfectly good Sages (SP and XP) in search of the perfect rod but picked it up again when my Sage got broken. I used it for sewin quickly realising that it performed every bit as well as the Sages and I'd wasted £100s. Renée Foxon recently put a new handle and reel fitting on for me and it's almost as good as new.
 

sewinbasher

Well-known member
Points
48
Location
North East Wales
I pushed on with T&S to the end of 2005 today. There have been no ads for Carbotec and absolutely no mention of the EMGIII since my last sighting when it was newly release, this despite several 4 page rod tests featuring 20-odd different rods!.
I remember Mick Bell of Bloke rods complaining to me that he couldn't get a rod reviewed because he wasn't buying advertising.
 

Lewis Chessman

Well-known member
Points
38
Location
Isle of Lewis
I used to sell boron rods in the 1980s made for me by Owen Caudle to my own specs.
I'd love to see a thread with some photos, sewinbasher! They were early-adoptors of imported US graphite & boron/graphite blanks and I have a lot of fun trying to work out what's what on eBay. :)
On this thread (post 84) I quoted Julian Caudle's comments on a 15 ft boron composite, 'The Coronet', where he gives 'Graphite-USA' as the blank maker (1979). I asked about them on the NAFFF but no one commented.
All I have is a suspected Caudle & Rivaz (thread & pic here) on a Fenwick HMG blank from the late '70s. I can't think who or what else the OC/GR could stand for so I like to thinks its one of theirs. :)


@ loxie and anyone interested: I had a look through a box of old catalogues today and found a 1999/2000 Carbotec catalogue, complete with price list and photocopied reviews.
I'll scan the fly rod pages tonight/tomorrow. If anyone would like a copy pm me with an email address and I'll send the files on.
 

ACW

Well-known member
Re Caudle and rivaz,somewhere amongst the rod collection is a geoff rivaz built fenwick 9ft #5 2 peice .At thwe time I got it Iwas fishing the cheap bit of the Hungerford waters ,of which geoff was chairman or similar official.
it really was a foavorite rod
 

Lewis Chessman

Well-known member
Points
38
Location
Isle of Lewis
Andy, you have the brown HMG, the 2nd generation, don't you? Mine is the earlier black one but it is a 9 ft #5, too. It'd be a giggle to cast the two side by side one day, wouldn't it?
:)
 

Wee Jimmy

Well-known member
Points
48
Location
Fife
Did anyone else buy any of the Sue Burgess Diamondbacks..? They had a multi line rating,mine was a nine foot aftm 4-6.Lovely rod,used it for years.
 

loxie

Well-known member
Points
28
Andy, you have the brown HMG, the 2nd generation, don't you? Mine is the earlier black one but it is a 9 ft #5, too. It'd be a giggle to cast the two side by side one day, wouldn't it?
:)
As a youth my favourite spinning rod was a repurposed C&R 14' fly rod. It had been broken beyond repair so my father put a handle on the top 2 sections and made a spinning rod. I broke it at least twice and repaired it before I finally ruined it. In those days we used what we had rather than bought what we wanted!
 

billy fish

Well-known member
Points
18
Location
sidmouth,devon
I've also heard of the legendary Carbotec container of Daimaru blanks - how much truth is in it I couldn't say but you would think that someone would be building/selling them by now? If you see what the 2nd hand multi feeders and float rods go for then anyone holding stock would be mad not to release a few! Interestingly the Carbotec fly rods have never been held in such high market esteem, perhaps due to their pretty plain builds and use of cheap reelseats? The blanks I particularly liked are both 9'6" one's a #6 the other's a #7 and both are ground and brown in colour (which I was told was an attempt to emulate the Sage RPL colour?) Either way they are quality blanks and factory rods can still be found second hand at bargain prices. I have long suspected that the Enigma mk 1 rods came from the same factory/mandrels? If so were they the true content of that legendary container? The plot thickens.....Omri Thomas would know.....
The legendary container is in the hands of Omri Thomas’s son according to a friend that knows the family.

- - - Updated - - -

I'm finding this thread increasingly depressing! I own quite a few Carbotecs but there are still a few models I want to buy. There is also a couple of mk1 enigmas I want too. You lot are in danger of inflating the prices.

Does that include salmon rods Andrew ? If so we should have a chat. I have several I would like to move on.
Colin.

I've tried to track down the mythical blanks but I suspect they don't exist. I'd buy the whole lot if I could!

Vintage rods suit me much better than modern ones and, other than sage, are still fair value.

If anyone wants to sell or swap their carbotecs or enigmas give me a shout![/Does that include salmon rods Andrew ? If so we should have a chat. I have several I would like to move on.
 

loxie

Well-known member
Points
28
The legendary container is in the hands of Omri Thomas’s son according to a friend that knows the family.

- - - Updated - - -

I'm finding this thread increasingly depressing! I own quite a few Carbotecs but there are still a few models I want to buy. There is also a couple of mk1 enigmas I want too. You lot are in danger of inflating the prices.

Does that include salmon rods Andrew ? If so we should have a chat. I have several I would like to move on.
Colin.

I've tried to track down the mythical blanks but I suspect they don't exist. I'd buy the whole lot if I could!

Vintage rods suit me much better than modern ones and, other than sage, are still fair value.

If anyone wants to sell or swap their carbotecs or enigmas give me a shout![/Does that include salmon rods Andrew ? If so we should have a chat. I have several I would like to move on.
I'll drop you a pm Colin.
 

liphook

Well-known member
Points
18
Billy Fish you'll forgive me if I don't hold my breath as a sceptic of this urban myth! I'd wager that if there are blanks/rods in storage somewhere that they are excess inventory of less popular models. Otherwise Nigel Thomas has been sat on a faberge egg that risks becoming a kinder egg given modern advances in carbon technology and manufacturing. Something he'll be acutely aware of.
I do wonder what happened to the mandrels? Did they hold the key to the much vaunted 'step taper' or was that effect created in the flag pattern by varying cloth and lay up? If the enigma/carbotec connection is true then they went to China?
 

billy fish

Well-known member
Points
18
Location
sidmouth,devon
Did anyone else buy any of the Sue Burgess Diamondbacks..? They had a multi line rating,mine was a nine foot aftm 4-6.Lovely rod,used it for years.
I bought a few diamondbacks as they were “bees knees” when they came out .
I still have the 8’6” 4-6 , 10’ 6-9 and a broken 9’ 4-6 . My father who knew Anne and Phillip Parkinson very well bought three rods in blank form which were 10’ 6” 5-8 . They were made up by another of his good friends ,Stuart Canham ,when he worked for Benwoods. I still have mine ,with my name on and dated 1980.
 

rusty

Well-known member
Points
38
Location
Powys
I sent an email to Airflow about a year ago to find out more about my Enigma Trufly 9ft #5/6 but I received no reply.
It is a shame they do not provide information to help enthusiasts like ourselves.

Rusty
 

PaulD

Well-known member
Points
18
Location
South Northants
Did anyone else buy any of the Sue Burgess Diamondbacks..? They had a multi line rating,mine was a nine foot aftm 4-6.Lovely rod,used it for years.
I had the 9ft, 4 -7, in fact still have somewhere. I generally used it with a 5 wt line and once caught a 7lb salmon using it on the Teifi.
 

Wee Jimmy

Well-known member
Points
48
Location
Fife
I had the 9ft, 4 -7, in fact still have somewhere. I generally used it with a 5 wt line and once caught a 7lb salmon using it on the Teifi.
That’s the one..😉I mainly used #5 weight on it as well.It was my main rod throughout the eighties up until I bought my RPL in 1991.It ended up gathering dust and I eventually sold it because once I got used to the Sage, the action of it felt so slow and sluggish in comparison.Not that that’s a bad thing ,it was just so different that it wasn’t easy to switch back and forward between the two.
 

bobmiddlepoint

Well-known member
Points
48
Location
Thick end of the stick.
My first carbon rod was a Sue Burgess Diamondback Copperhead 2. I absolutely hated it. It was bought by my father and to me it felt slow and heavy compared to the 9 foot glass Shakespeare Nymph rod which I started out with!

It would be interesting to try one again today to see what I think with a bit more experience behind me.


Andy
 
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