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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    Edinburgh
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    108

    Default European vs American vs Kiwi Trout

    Hi guys,

    Been having a wee think the last few months after watching a number of videos on youtube about various methods on the river and I have came up with a question.

    How similar, or different do trout in different parts of the world act in a similar type of river system?

    What I mean about this is that they face slightly different challenges and the food available to them could be significantly different. But at the same time they are the same species so you would expect them to have a similar approach to life.

    Just food for thought.

    Cheers

    Liam

  2. #2
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Central Scotland
    Posts
    28,582

    Default Re: European vs American vs Kiwi Trout

    Trout as a species are incredibly aggressive feeders,If it looks like food,acts like food or even smells like food they will give it a go and try and eat it.This helps them survive in very different sorts of habitat.

    Jim
    The Fishermans Friend is the Flirty Fly,Fickle Food for Fleeting Fish.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    Ouse, Tasmania (The gateway to The Central Highlands Lakes!)
    Posts
    44

    Default Re: European vs American vs Kiwi Trout

    Hi Liam

    Just like we learned back in the old days everyone walks upside down here, and the fish swim upside down too!

    Actually all the trout out here celebrated their 150th anniversary of their arrival last year at a place called the Salmon Ponds on the River Plenty, not very far from where I live. It was the first place in the Southern Hemisphere where this happened. They look very much like any wild trout I've caught round the British Isles precisely because the ova was shipped out wrapped in moss and ice and successfully hatched out here. Every year the IFS has an open weekend when they strip the fish and tell the story of how the trout got here. It's a fantastic occasion and really well attended.

    As Jim writes they're pretty aggressive feeders and there are very many similar aquatic insects and invertebrates that exist here in Tasmanian waters, so you can in fact use most Northern Hemisphere fly patterns to catch the trout. Indeed I do, as well as trying some particularly local patterns. I've caught over 300 trout this season on only four patterns, dry or wet depending on the conditions, March Brown, Greenwells' Glory, Red Spinner and Pheasant Tail Nymph, which I think proves that similarity of diet.

    Their natural aggression is a good thing for me; however else could I catch a trout?

    All the best

    Brian x

  4. #4
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    North East Wales
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    10,726
    Blog Entries
    2

    Default Re: European vs American vs Kiwi Trout

    It's amazing to think that the ova were transported successfully halfway round the World before the days of flights. The trout worked but I don't think the salmon did so well.

    Did the NZ trout come from Tasmania or was that a separate stocking exercise?
    “There is no more lovely country than Monmouthshire in early spring. Nowhere do the larks sing quite so passionately, as if somehow inspired by the Welsh themselves. There is a blackbird on every thorn and a cock chaffinch, a twink as they call him there, on every bush...... It moved me profoundly. I had been spared to see another spring, and I thank God for it.”

    Oliver Kite
    “A Spring Day on the Usk”
    A Fisherman’s Diary

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Tipperary
    Posts
    370

    Default Re: European vs American vs Kiwi Trout

    My understanding is that most transported fish were loch Leven fish.Though I stand to be corrected.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    Ouse, Tasmania (The gateway to The Central Highlands Lakes!)
    Posts
    44

    Default Re: European vs American vs Kiwi Trout

    Greetings one and all!

    Thanks for your interest. As mentioned above, they didn't do so well with the Salmon. In fact the Salmon did survive the same journey AS the trout but when they were released into the River Plenty, a tributary of the Derwent upon which Hobart stands, off they swam never to be seen again! The trout which survived that epic voyage multiplied and became the ancestors of the beautiful trout we fish for here in Tasmania, mainland states AND New Zealand!

    It cost a lot of money in those days, just think of GBP 3000 translated into today's costs. The first attempt was in the early 1850s and it wasn't until 1864 that success was achieved. A clipper sailed from England, 21st January carrying both Salmon and Brown Trout ova and landed in Melbourne where the 11 boxes of Salmon ova were delivered. There were 3 boxes of Trout ova sent as a gift and Youl (mastermind of all these attempts)'s man Ramsbottom made sure the Trout got to Tassie. 21st April the ship arrived at New Norfolk, and the ova were carried on poles to Plenty where they hatched - 91 days after leaving England!

    I hope you don't mind me taking the time to send this, it really is a fascinating story, and for which I'm grateful, like so many other trout fishing addicts out here!

    A link to the IFS (Inland Fisheries Service) will, I'm sure, yield more information for you if you're interested.

    Latest News ? Inland Fisheries Service - Managing trout fishing in Tasmania

    All the best

    Brian x

    ---------- Post added at 06:14 AM ---------- Previous post was at 06:11 AM ----------

    Ooops!

    The link is supposed to be

    Latest News ? Inland Fisheries Service - Managing trout fishing in Tasmania

    That should give you a link to the history page

    All the best

    Brian x

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    1,017

    Default Re: European vs American vs Kiwi Trout

    I have watched some of those videos on you tube and couldn't help thinking that some of the tactics deployed would not work in UK/Irish rivers.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    Edinburgh
    Posts
    108

    Default Re: European vs American vs Kiwi Trout

    Quote Originally Posted by flute_fry View Post
    Greetings one and all!

    Thanks for your interest. As mentioned above, they didn't do so well with the Salmon. In fact the Salmon did survive the same journey AS the trout but when they were released into the River Plenty, a tributary of the Derwent upon which Hobart stands, off they swam never to be seen again! The trout which survived that epic voyage multiplied and became the ancestors of the beautiful trout we fish for here in Tasmania, mainland states AND New Zealand!

    It cost a lot of money in those days, just think of GBP 3000 translated into today's costs. The first attempt was in the early 1850s and it wasn't until 1864 that success was achieved. A clipper sailed from England, 21st January carrying both Salmon and Brown Trout ova and landed in Melbourne where the 11 boxes of Salmon ova were delivered. There were 3 boxes of Trout ova sent as a gift and Youl (mastermind of all these attempts)'s man Ramsbottom made sure the Trout got to Tassie. 21st April the ship arrived at New Norfolk, and the ova were carried on poles to Plenty where they hatched - 91 days after leaving England!

    I hope you don't mind me taking the time to send this, it really is a fascinating story, and for which I'm grateful, like so many other trout fishing addicts out here!

    A link to the IFS (Inland Fisheries Service) will, I'm sure, yield more information for you if you're interested.

    Latest News ? Inland Fisheries Service - Managing trout fishing in Tasmania

    All the best

    Brian x

    ---------- Post added at 06:14 AM ---------- Previous post was at 06:11 AM ----------

    Ooops!

    The link is supposed to be

    Latest News ? Inland Fisheries Service - Managing trout fishing in Tasmania

    That should give you a link to the history page

    All the best

    Brian x
    Its interesting how all this was done back in the day. I suppose most people just take the whole introduced species thing for granted and don't even think about the transportation, keeping the animal alive, suitability of habitat etc. I suppose it is significantly easier to transport air breathing animals than fish and amphibians and the sort.

    Is there any records that show the sort of impact the trout had on the native populations of fish being so aggressive?

    Quote Originally Posted by cax View Post
    I have watched some of those videos on you tube and couldn't help thinking that some of the tactics deployed would not work in UK/Irish rivers.
    Only one way to find out

    Cheers

    Liam

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    Ouse, Tasmania (The gateway to The Central Highlands Lakes!)
    Posts
    44

    Default Re: European vs American vs Kiwi Trout

    Hi again Liam

    You are spot on. there are native species out here, Galaxids and Gadopsis (Blackfish ) to name but a few. Even here there are some anglers who've done the same as in the British Isles, the Zander being one example of being deliberately introduced.

    I'm not saying Youl was right, but back then they didn't have the knowledge, or perhaps just didn't consider the consequences as they have to now. The fox is a prime example, and thet was brought out so that they could carry on hunting!

    When the original Lake Pedder was inundated the Trout were aggresssive and very quickly devoured an endemic species, 'galaxis pedderensis' if I remember correctly.

    An insurance population was taken out to Lake Oberon where they survived and another insurance population was placed in the dam, at the back of Strathgordon, which is the now defunct Hydro town's water supply. The Hydro did a lot a work a few years ago to try and ensure they could spawn and made improvements to the habitat by way of introducing appropriate rocks to encourage their spawning, about 2008. It seems they're hanging on.

    So technically I understand the Lake Pedder Galaxid is deemd to be officially extinct (in Lake Pedder), and this is in spite of the science available in the '60s and '70s when all this was happening.

    I hope that you find this useful

    All the best

    Brian x

  10. #10
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    The Wild West of Dymock
    Posts
    6,209

    Default Re: European vs American vs Kiwi Trout

    Quote Originally Posted by cunning stunt View Post
    Hi guys,

    Been having a wee think the last few months after watching a number of videos on youtube about various methods on the river and I have came up with a question.

    How similar, or different do trout in different parts of the world act in a similar type of river system?

    What I mean about this is that they face slightly different challenges and the food available to them could be significantly different. But at the same time they are the same species so you would expect them to have a similar approach to life.

    Just food for thought.

    Cheers

    Liam
    Really interesting question that one Liam. I think the pattern of behaviour - by the way I luuuurve the idea of trout having an "approach to life" - is governed by the food they eat... what it is, and when it is available - how often, whereabouts etc etc. Nowhere illustrated this point to me more clearly than in Iceland last year where the brown trout grow huge by feeding pretty much solely on midge in many of the rivers. They didn't lie where you expected and you had to tune in the way they behave before you stood an earthly of catching the buggers!
    "I would love to live like a river flows, carried by the surprise of its own unfolding" John O'Donohue

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