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  1. #51
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
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    Scotland
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    Default Re: Is this cheating?

    I see the fault at the fishery feeding the pellets.Any fishery worth its salt should have enough in its water to sustain the fish they put in at anytime if not it shouldn't be there.

    In this case of the thread you may aswell be given a handful of pellets to throw each time you catch and to me its not fishing at all but pure desperation.Do you go away after fishing having caught 20 fish feeling I'm improving and a good angler? Have yu had to think of how to fish,what depth, what fly to use,what line to use,tactics etc or just chuck a luck with a pellet knowing a fish will take?

    Its like throwing bread in the water fish will get used to it and be waiting.

    How fishing has changed over the years.Nobody likes a challenge and like society getting lazy and want easy outcomes every time.

  2. #52
    Join Date
    May 2006
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    North East Wales
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    Default Re: Is this cheating?

    Quote Originally Posted by BobP View Post
    If fly fishing is all about imitating an insect, perhaps you could tell us what a Cat's Whisker imitates? Or how about a Blob? Or what about any of the "traditional" wet flies? Is a piece of cork glued to a hook so much worse than any of those?

    If your criteria is that the fly should be tied out of natural materials as suggested higher up in this thread, then what about modern Superglue or Hard as Nails buzzers? These are arguably the most imitative fly patterns around, but there is not one tiny item of natural materials in their make-up.
    My personal criteria are that the flies that I use should imitate the food that the trout are feeding on irrespective of materials, if that happens to be small fish then some lures are appropriate.

    I have in the distant past fished small "put and take" fisheries and pulled lures with the best of them. I then realised that travelling 2 hours to one of a number of South of England fisheries, spending £30 on a ticket, catching a limit in an hour, buying another ticket, catching another limit was stupid and in my worst case I caught two limits at Rookesbury Mill then called in at Lower Moor on the way home to get another!!

    I then read Brian Clarkes book and totally changed my approach to fly fishing, this was strengthened by reading/watching people like Clarke & Goddard, Bob Wyatt, Oliver Kite, Doug Swisher, Oliver Edwards and Gary Borger. Also, it's not just down to pattern, for example if you're pulling a damsel nymph in many cases you're actually pulling an olive lure, you don't find too many natural damsel nymphs are doing 30 mph in the upper layers in January!

    Cat's Whisker, Blob, Boobie etc have no place in my box, I would rather not catch anything than resort to a lure just to avoid a blank, fly fishing is much more than that, but I'm not going to dictate to others what they should do - provided it's within the rules. Just for the record I'm perfectly happy to fish a Cascade or Rapala for salmon but although a Cascade is a "fly" I don't confuse this with persuading a trout or grayling to take an insect imitation.
    Last edited by sewinbasher; 10-02-2019 at 12:25 PM.
    “There is no more lovely country than Monmouthshire in early spring. Nowhere do the larks sing quite so passionately, as if somehow inspired by the Welsh themselves. There is a blackbird on every thorn and a cock chaffinch, a twink as they call him there, on every bush...... It moved me profoundly. I had been spared to see another spring, and I thank God for it.”

    Oliver Kite
    “A Spring Day on the Usk”
    A Fisherman’s Diary

  3. #53
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Scotland
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    Default Re: Is this cheating?

    My criteria is each to there own, if people want to fish only natural imitations that's fine if others want to pull lures or boobies that's there choice, it about enjoying the day for me that involves catching fish with any means the rules allow.

    I thoroughly enjoy fishing worms and grubs of my fly rod when the water is in a dirty spate imo that's as skillful as fishing a fly.

    Al

  4. #54

    Default Re: Is this cheating?

    I too have Brian Clarke's excellent book. I bought it 30 years ago and I still read it. However, needs must. Although I try to get fishing every week, I don't have that much time, 3-4 hours at the most, so I am pretty much restricted to fisheries within 30 min. of where I live, not much choice. I also don't have much in the way of choice of days, so I have to put up with whatever weather conditions happen to be, so I can't necessarily go on warmer days when you might expect a buzzer hatch. For most of the year I do fish using imitations of the naturals, but at this time of year, in the only non-commercial lake available to me, the natural food is pretty scarce. So fishing naturals doesn't catch. So yes, like everyone else, I lob in various coloured lures and pull them back at various depths and speeds until I find the fish. But I don't find that particularly satisfactory, nor do I think it is that skillful. I do like taking fish off the top and if this is the only way to do it in the depths of winter, so be it. I used the pellet fly as the point on a washing line rig, with buzzers as droppers, so if there is a hatch of buzzers, I can catch on them. I do think there is a problem with the lake of not enough natural food for the level of stock and I am working with the committee to make improvements to the levels of natural food so that pellet feeding should not be necessary.

  5. #55
    Join Date
    May 2016
    Location
    Sheffield
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    6,979

    Default Re: Is this cheating?

    Quote Originally Posted by kingf000 View Post
    I too have Brian Clarke's excellent book. I bought it 30 years ago and I still read it. However, needs must. Although I try to get fishing every week, I don't have that much time, 3-4 hours at the most, so I am pretty much restricted to fisheries within 30 min. of where I live, not much choice. I also don't have much in the way of choice of days, so I have to put up with whatever weather conditions happen to be, so I can't necessarily go on warmer days when you might expect a buzzer hatch. For most of the year I do fish using imitations of the naturals, but at this time of year, in the only non-commercial lake available to me, the natural food is pretty scarce. So fishing naturals doesn't catch. So yes, like everyone else, I lob in various coloured lures and pull them back at various depths and speeds until I find the fish. But I don't find that particularly satisfactory, nor do I think it is that skillful. I do like taking fish off the top and if this is the only way to do it in the depths of winter, so be it. I used the pellet fly as the point on a washing line rig, with buzzers as droppers, so if there is a hatch of buzzers, I can catch on them. I do think there is a problem with the lake of not enough natural food for the level of stock and I am working with the committee to make improvements to the levels of natural food so that pellet feeding should not be necessary.
    An old method used by pond keepers is to sink a large hessian sack packed with leaves (oak being the best, definitely not Horse Chestnut, contains saponin), straw and mud from an established healthy pond ( oh and a heavy stone to sink it) to establish the micro organisms needed, one for every 3 yards square and at a depth of up to 10 feet. Then plant marginals, provided the water level is pretty stable. Plants with their roots in the water provide shelter and food for a majority of aquatic insects.
    Water conditions need to be tested first.
    A large lake would require a lot of sacks and a lot of work

  6. #56

    Default Re: Is this cheating?

    And presumably some wing of bat!

    Sorry could n't resist

    Morse

  7. #57
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    Well within my comfort zone
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    8,132

    Default Re: Is this cheating?

    I'm still intrigued as to where an angler can define the line where he's "cheating" & who he is cheating? Fisheries up & down the country have their own set of rules for that particular fishery, rivers or stillwaters. It has to be a conscious element with an individual angler, otherwise sub-consciously cheating himself perhaps.
    2019 & it will be time for a change.

  8. #58
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
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    kitchen
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    Default Re: Is this cheating?

    why not throw a handful of peebles to fool the fish in to feeding time altogether it might just work

    but why bother its yourself your fooling along with the trout
    i read an article somewhere that a competition guy used an artificial cigar (pea shooter)to spit the pellets out to attract the trout without anyone noticing until he was caught
    might as well use salmon paste altogether
    which brings me to the point HOW DESPERATE ARE YOU TO CATCH A TROUT? are you really that bad an angler

  9. #59
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Scotland
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    2,248

    Default Re: Is this cheating?

    Quote Originally Posted by doobrysnatcher View Post
    which brings me to the point HOW DESPERATE ARE YOU TO CATCH A TROUT? are you really that bad an angler
    There's a world of difference between desperate and keen and irrelevant to being good or bad, i don't subscribe to the "shugie and druggie script ��" its all about getting out catching fish doesn't matter!
    When i pay money and put in effort Im looking for results but I'm not desperate, I don't fish stew ponds I tend to fish buzzers, nymphs and traditional wets, if I'm having no luck I,ll try pulling lures for a bit they've saved the day a few times.

    As I've said if people want to limit their choice that's up to them, if i want to use a cats whisker that's up to me, what's happened to each to his own?

    Al

  10. #60

    Default Re: Is this cheating?

    I don't think I am a great angler, but I don't think I am that bad. Trout seem to be finicky. One time you can catch loads, you go a few days later, everything seems to be the same, you try the same method, but you catch nothing. You then start trying every fly and technique you have found successful in the past, and sometimes all fail. If there is a method available to you that can avoid a blank day, then why not go for it. I wouldn't say I was desperate to catch fish, its just that I'm much happier when I do. When using a washing line set up, it seems to be normal to use a highly bouyant point fly, which doesn't have much similarity to anything natural that is about at this time of year, be it a blob, booby or anything else. So again, why not use one that has the best chance of taking fish? I'm going again today and have tied some tan foam beetles, as I'm sure there are lots of tan beetles about at this time of year!

    The quantity of food in the lake relative to the stock level is another matter! I checked the pH in september and it was 6.8, rather on the acidic side. I checked it again in January, when all the weed had died back, and it was 8.2. I've read that this is typical of a lake with low calcium levels, the higher pH in winter being due to release of ammonia by the rotting vegetation and not enough calcium to complex the ammonia. I'm continuing to monitor to see if the pH drops again when the weed comes back.

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