Understanding Fly Lines

[tangled]

Very little.

This is what RIO say about the different characteristics for their WF 5 profiles. It's Simon Gawseworth, he's a company man of course but I like the guy.

There's going to be something in the differences, whether they actually matter, and if they do whether your average angler can find them is quite another problem.

 

[original cormorant]

With the mention of arrowhead lines on this thread and on another thread a few weeks ago I went to the Michael Evans website. The shop appears to be dead but this is what I found - so so wrong.

Blue Water - Michael Evans & Co

Blue Water Saltwater Fly Fishing Saltwater fly fishing is a relatively new sport, but already very popular as a warm weather, winter holiday for many fly fishers. The attraction is not difficult to see, it is freezing cold, damp and generally dark and dingy in the UK and most of the Trout &...

www.michaelevans.co.uk

 

[aenoon]

With the mention of arrowhead lines on this thread and on another thread a few weeks ago I went to the Michael Evans website. The shop appears to be dead but this is what I found - so so wrong.

Blue Water - Michael Evans & Co

Blue Water Saltwater Fly Fishing Saltwater fly fishing is a relatively new sport, but already very popular as a warm weather, winter holiday for many fly fishers. The attraction is not difficult to see, it is freezing cold, damp and generally dark and dingy in the UK and most of the Trout &...

www.michaelevans.co.uk

That must have been written in the late 90's!
However, it does reflect on the name, and as you say, is so so wrong!

Bert

 

[ohanzee]

Another thing that can go wrong on threads like this is a purely 'theoretical' approach with no recourse to empirical observations.

I can aerialise a lot of line. I routinely practice carrying up to ~90ft (for competition purposes). What I can say with confidence is that 90ft of a #5 line still 'feels' lighter in the air than 30ft of say #9 or #10 weight line, despite the fact that on a balance they may weigh the same.

There's a big difference between casting a 'point' mass i.e. a lead weight, versus a distributed mass i.e. a fly line.

James

Is there a term or name for this? I always presumed that as we lengthen the heavier weight just begins to create its own momentum, becoming partially weightless due to it moving, we just add the bit of momentum it looses with each cast sort of thing....hang on is that even what is happening?

 

[taffy1]

They do have a tag at one end telling you where to attach the backing...what's not to understand?

 

[PaulD]

This is what RIO say about the different characteristics for their WF 5 profiles. It's Simon Gawseworth, he's a company man of course but I like the guy.

There's going to be something in the differences, whether they actually matter, and if they do whether your average angler can find them is quite another problem.

Earlier on in the thread the vast choice of fly lines available was mentioned and how 'complicated' it is to make an appropriate choice. For simplicity, although there are many variations, the choice basically falls into 3 camps and I've chosen three lines to illustrate the point - Mastery Titan, Rio Elite Technical Trout and Mastery Competition . . .

​

The profile of - 1. the Mastery Titan, short head, very short front and rear tapers, effectively makes it a shooting head despite it being one continuous fly line. It loads the rod quickly, good for delivering large flies at distance. Because of the 'easy loading', shorter heads that need to be carried outside the rod tip, they're often popular with less experienced casters. Downside? Presentation can be 'heavy', roll casting is limited as are 'presentation casts mends, slack line casts etc.

The profile of - 2. The Rio Elite Technical Trout. A much longer head, with longer compound tapers. It has a long front taper to allow controlled turn over of longer, light leaders for the presentation of smaller dries and nymphs. The longer, more gently tapered belly and rear taper provides stability in the air over distance and the length of tapers provide the vehicle for controlled roll casts and presentation casts.

The profile of - 3. The Mastery Competition, defines it as a line for long casting. This does not mean that if you buy one you will cast further. If you're used to a profile like the Mastery Titan, you'll probably cast less far with the Competition. The Competition is a line for people who can consistently generate and maintain the line speed to hold 70+ feet of line in the air. It is a competition line . . . not much of a fishing line.

All the weight forward. single handed fly lines on the Sportfish website are variations of these three types.

 

[tangled]

A couple of random questions

Anyone know what Di stands for on sinking lines - Di 3 etc?
(On polyleaders they use T, which is Type apparently)

What type of line density do you consider to be the hardest to cast?

 

[JayP]

A couple of random questions

Anyone know what Di stands for on sinking lines - Di 3 etc?
(On polyleaders they use T, which is Type apparently)

What type of line do you consider to be the hardest to cast?

I always thought Di was just an abbreviation of Density

 

[tangled]

Earlier on in the thread the vast choice of fly lines available was mentioned and how 'complicated' it is to make an appropriate choice. For simplicity, although there are many variations, the choice basically falls into 3 camps and I've chosen three lines to illustrate the point - Mastery Titan, Rio Elite Technical Trout and Mastery Competition . . .

View attachment 32911​

The profile of - 1. the Mastery Titan, short head, very short front and rear tapers, effectively makes it a shooting head despite it being one continuous fly line. It loads the rod quickly, good for delivering large flies at distance. Because of the 'easy loading', shorter heads that need to be carried outside the rod tip, they're often popular with less experienced casters. Downside? Presentation can be 'heavy', roll casting is limited as are 'presentation casts mends, slack line casts etc.

The profile of - 2. The Rio Elite Technical Trout. A much longer head, with longer compound tapers. It has a long front taper to allow controlled turn over of longer, light leaders for the presentation of smaller dries and nymphs. The longer, more gently tapered belly and rear taper provides stability in the air over distance and the length of tapers provide the vehicle for controlled roll casts and presentation casts.

The profile of - 3. The Mastery Competition, defines it as a line for long casting. This does not mean that if you buy one you will cast further. If you're used to a profile like the Mastery Titan, you'll probably cast less far with the Competition. The Competition is a line for people who can consistently generate and maintain the line speed to hold 70+ feet of line in the air. It is a competition line . . . not much of a fishing line.

All the weight forward. single handed fly lines on the Sportfish website are variations of these three types.

Thanks I shall nick that.

Can we therefore generalise and say what type of head would best suit these sort of situations then

River, upstream dry and nymph - overhead cast
River, down and across - roll casts
Small stillwater (shortish casts)
Large stillwater (longish casts)
Loch style, drifting boat - classic 3 wets

 

[andygrey]

A couple of random questions

Anyone know what Di stands for on sinking lines - Di 3 etc?
(On polyleaders they use T, which is Type apparently)

What type of line density do you consider to be the hardest to cast?

Have never been sure if the 'D' stands for density or depth (probably depth but I could be wrong...) but the 'i' stands for inches per second sink rate.

 

[original cormorant]

Thanks I shall nick that.

Can we therefore generalise and same what type of head would best suit these sort of situations then

River, upstream dry and nymph - overhead cast
River, down and across - roll casts
Small stillwater (shortish casts)
Large stillwater (longish casts)
Drift boat - classic 3 wets

Good idea but I think "Drift boat" is North American bigger river fishing as opposed to "Drifting boat" which is Loch Style with classic three wets.

 

[Paul_B]

A couple of random questions

Anyone know what Di stands for on sinking lines - Di 3 etc?
(On polyleaders they use T, which is Type apparently)

What type of line density do you consider to be the hardest to cast?

Depth in inches, some used to have the full title of Dips, depth in inches per second,

I seem to remember sea lines had a different rating

 

[morayfisher]

Earlier on in the thread the vast choice of fly lines available was mentioned and how 'complicated' it is to make an appropriate choice. For simplicity, although there are many variations, the choice basically falls into 3 camps and I've chosen three lines to illustrate the point - Mastery Titan, Rio Elite Technical Trout and Mastery Competition . . .

View attachment 32911​

The profile of - 1. the Mastery Titan, short head, very short front and rear tapers, effectively makes it a shooting head despite it being one continuous fly line. It loads the rod quickly, good for delivering large flies at distance. Because of the 'easy loading', shorter heads that need to be carried outside the rod tip, they're often popular with less experienced casters. Downside? Presentation can be 'heavy', roll casting is limited as are 'presentation casts mends, slack line casts etc.

The profile of - 2. The Rio Elite Technical Trout. A much longer head, with longer compound tapers. It has a long front taper to allow controlled turn over of longer, light leaders for the presentation of smaller dries and nymphs. The longer, more gently tapered belly and rear taper provides stability in the air over distance and the length of tapers provide the vehicle for controlled roll casts and presentation casts.

The profile of - 3. The Mastery Competition, defines it as a line for long casting. This does not mean that if you buy one you will cast further. If you're used to a profile like the Mastery Titan, you'll probably cast less far with the Competition. The Competition is a line for people who can consistently generate and maintain the line speed to hold 70+ feet of line in the air. It is a competition line . . . not much of a fishing line.

All the weight forward. single handed fly lines on the Sportfish website are variations of these three types.

Thanks I shall nick that.

I think it would be useful to add an example of a triangle/spey taper to that.

 

[tangled]

I think it would be useful to add an example of a triangle/spey taper to that.

So, as I understand it, a triangle taper is a very long and continuous taper. It even has a new code TT (eg TT-5-F). It adds another complexity which this world could do without - but if it's important it probably should be in. There seems to be some controversy about it. This is Bob Wyatt's take on it for Sexyloops but it's a bit old - 2006

Sexyloops' Tackle Review Section

Honest reviews of fishing tackle with special observations: Royal Wulff Triangle Taper

www.sexyloops.com

In fact the Mastery Competition line above looks very like a TT

 

[PaulD]

In fact the Mastery Competition line above looks very like a TT

???

This is a Wulff Triangle Taper . . .



Mastery Competition


Very, very different.

 

[tangled]

???

This is a Wulff Triangle Taper . . .

View attachment 32917

Mastery Competition

View attachment 32919
Very, very different.

Yup, you're right; brain fart. My excuse is that if you reverse the taper on that competition line it becomes a TT.

 

[3lbgrayling]

I was under the imppresion that the T designation was for Tungston IE T11 and the no was to signify how much tungston.

Jim

 

[ohanzee]

So, as I understand it, a triangle taper is a very long and continuous taper. It even has a new code TT (eg TT-5-F). It adds another complexity which this world could do without - but if it's important it probably should be in. There seems to be some controversy about it. This is Bob Wyatt's take on it for Sexyloops but it's a bit old - 2006

Sexyloops' Tackle Review Section

Honest reviews of fishing tackle with special observations: Royal Wulff Triangle Taper

www.sexyloops.com

In fact the Mastery Competition line above looks very like a TT

Early TT's were supposed to correspond to the older split rod ratings, ie. 5/6 from a time when DT's were more popular, the 'Triangle Taper' is really just a Wulff marketing name, maybe a patent? there are now many other lines with a similar profile today under a different brand with a different name.

The Mastery is sort of the same in a way, same sort of concept but stretched to carry a much longer length of line, my take is that the biggest differences are the rear tapers, these give different functions more than anything else.

Would it be useful to discuss what each part of a profile does...tip/front taper/belly/rear taper/running line, and what happens when you lengthen or shorten a section?

 

[Gary Ridgeway]

Earlier on in the thread the vast choice of fly lines available was mentioned and how 'complicated' it is to make an appropriate choice. For simplicity, although there are many variations, the choice basically falls into 3 camps and I've chosen three lines to illustrate the point - Mastery Titan, Rio Elite Technical Trout and Mastery Competition . . .

View attachment 32911​

The profile of - 1. the Mastery Titan, short head, very short front and rear tapers, effectively makes it a shooting head despite it being one continuous fly line. It loads the rod quickly, good for delivering large flies at distance. Because of the 'easy loading', shorter heads that need to be carried outside the rod tip, they're often popular with less experienced casters. Downside? Presentation can be 'heavy', roll casting is limited as are 'presentation casts mends, slack line casts etc.

The profile of - 2. The Rio Elite Technical Trout. A much longer head, with longer compound tapers. It has a long front taper to allow controlled turn over of longer, light leaders for the presentation of smaller dries and nymphs. The longer, more gently tapered belly and rear taper provides stability in the air over distance and the length of tapers provide the vehicle for controlled roll casts and presentation casts.

The profile of - 3. The Mastery Competition, defines it as a line for long casting. This does not mean that if you buy one you will cast further. If you're used to a profile like the Mastery Titan, you'll probably cast less far with the Competition. The Competition is a line for people who can consistently generate and maintain the line speed to hold 70+ feet of line in the air. It is a competition line . . . not much of a fishing line.

All the weight forward. single handed fly lines on the Sportfish website are variations of these three types.

I have to disagree Paul. I have 23 WF floating lines, the Mastery Competition is my "go to" line for river fishing, I think I am on my 4th or 5th over a 10+ year period. Out all of the lines I have it's the most versatile . Don't be fooled by what others say, you have to try lines before you can make judgement. Even geeking out on tapers I can still get my perception wrong on how the line will feel or act, there is a marked difference in softness or stiffness between brands and line types that's also not talked about. Another point to note is surprisingly some less high end line still have good tapers albeit are let down by the durability and slickness of their coating that only the true train spotters would notice.

Don't try and understand a fly line, try it.
If it's good for you, it's good.

 

[tangled]

aaarrgghhh, just as I thought I was getting somewhere...