hi there, having owned one of these myself the best advice i can give is sell it or use for floating line work only. have you ever heard the saying it couldnt pull the skin of a rice pudding? sums this rod up perfectly. :thumbs:

 

Sorry Jambo, but I must dispute that statement!
I'll say from the off that I'm no spey casting master and I'm regularly having lessons to help me improve!
I'm a fan of fast rods and shooting heads, simply for economy of effort, but for practicing, a long bellied spey line with a through actioned rod cant be beaten.
"Floating line work only"? absolute cobblers!!!!!!!, the difference between a floating cast and a sink tip cast is 1 or 2 roll casts to get the stuff up before starting the casting sequence. FACT. It makes no difference which rod you use, you need to get the business end up on top, then away you go.
A loomis dredger or b&w norway are powerful rods, but they wont cast a tip and tube from 3ft down!
Dont go throwing your money away thinking a new line or rod will resolve the problem. It wont!
Casting lessons will!!!!
I've had a cast of this rod using a snowbee 1d 9/10 floater and it worked. You can cut the front 3ft off this line and loop on 10ft sinking polyleaders for the sink tip effect, but I think youl still need a lesson or 2 more.

A few tips for casting.
Dont be affraid of bringing the head of the spey line inside the tip ring. I learnt this recently, having 6ft of a 68ft head inside made all the difference.
Roll cast and roll again to get the line up before you start.
Make your initial lift vertical and slooooowwwwww!!!!! before comencing your sweep. This goes for the lift on the roll cast too. If you go quickly, your rod bends double and you feel like your dragging up the river bed.

orvis dont make a bad rod and you can most likely cut the front taper from your existing floating line to take a sinking polyleader.
spend 60 or 70 notes on a couple of hours with a qualified instructor and youl be fishing!

Rod

 

its hard enough for a beginer to cast without throwing in a few roll casts, this rod has no guts- fact.

 

surely, using a sinking line will call for a roll cast or two no matter what rod is used?

 

Thanks for advice I must say I did have my doubts about the rod having siad that I did manage to land a 12lber on it last season and never felt undergunned I think I'll stick with it and get a few lessons

I take it both of you agree its not suitable for a multi-tip line.


Thanks again

 

not in my opinion, certainly not for a beginner, there are loads of very powerful forgiving rods out there that handle multi tips well, still i agree lessons are the way forward ,good luck:thumbs:.

 

One of the 'problems' may well be is most US designed/built rods use a different rating system than European products. If you're using a Euro line you'll need to go up at least two line sizes to match with that rod.

Or to put that another way, our 9/10's would be your 10/11 or 11/12. Appears the line (floating) you're using doesn't have enough 'grains' to properly load the rod.

The comment on casting full sinking lines above is dead on. You've got to 'roll' the line to the surface before you set up the cast. Which is why you see very few folks using that type of line here in the US. Vast majority of folks will use a 'Skagit' type head, which, on a given rod, though fairly short will be close to 100 - 150 grains heavier than a Scandi head. The short heavy head just rips out a (sunk) sink tip and large/heavy fly.

But back to full sinking line use 'here.' About as close as you'll see is the 24 to 30 foot 'dregger heads.' These, like a full sinker, need to be rolled to the surface prior to casting. These things sink like a rock, but just the 'lift' at the beginning of the casting stroke will pull 90% or more of it out of the water. Majority of us just attach these directly to the shooting line, no 'floating section used at all.

Only fiddling is getting the over-hang out side your rod tip down. That will vary from rod to rod, but will range from none to as much as 18''. End game is the 'head will launch like a rocket.

Fred

fae

 

best thing i ever done was get rid of it.:thumbs:

 

the op is asking about multi tip lines, there should be no reason at all to roll cast any multi tip line before performing a spey cast.

What a load of rubbish, so if you have a 15ft 6ips tip on this rod or any rod you expect to be able to just pick it up and re-cast it? You fish the cast through, by this time 15ft plus of the line is 4 feet beneath the water and you can just go straight into a spey cast, maybe, just maybe you could perform a double spey depending on the current and the initial lift. I even roll cast sunk shooting heads to the surface before casting them.

I will recommend lessons, but, ask the instructor if they have a selection of lines to try, the rod may work well with a certain line and rubbish with another, I didn't like the Loop multi tip, I didn't feel they had the head length right, especially for the rod I was using, lines I would recommend are the Snowbee either 2d of 1d, the Hardy Mach 55, you say you have intermediates and sinking lines, a couple of lessons will get you casting them as well as a full floater, especially after you roll them onto the surface

Chris

 

the point i am trying to get across is that the rod is very very soft and in my opinion not at all suitable for a beginner casting heavy tips, but remember this is MY opinion.

 

Personally not familiar with the rod, but for 'tip work' this type of action would not be a good choice. Polyleaders would work fine, but a full on 15' sink tip .... heck of a lot of 'mass' there.

Which brings up the initial line design. To (admittedly) over simplify, a line with a long forward taper and a 'regular sink tip' is a non-starter from the get-go. With tips you need a short(ish) blunt line like a Skagit head.

A given rod may easily handle (just to pick numbers) a 425 - 480 grain Scandi head and 10-12 foot sinking poly leader), but if you want to cast 'real' sink tips you'll need at least 550 - 575 grains with (as close as you can get) 'zero taper' in the line. Yes, the same rod.

For comparative purposes, the Skagit head, even with all the extra grains, will be at/close to 1/3'rd shorter in length than a Scandi. End game is short line with a heck of a lot of mass in its short length.

The above was the end game of the fellows up in Washington State who developed the initial line configurations. (The Skagit is a very large river that flows into Puget Sound about 60 miles north of Seattle.) Process started with the Fellows chopping up 10 -15 weight DT lines until they hit a 'Bingo!'

The Skagit Cast takes into account the 'tip will sink, and sink fast, but the whole process is to use that sunk tip as a heavy water loaded anchor. The short heavy head just rips the thing out of the water (not to mention the heavy fly the size of a dead Chicken). There is no 'touch and go' with this type of rig. As a mater of fact most (new) folks are surprised at just how sllooooowwwlly this cast is actually executed.

But back to the 'rod.' A rod that will work well with a Scandi/regular tapered line may be a minor disaster with a Skagit ... just not enough 'Umph.'

 

thanks again for all the advice I think i'll try a heavier line first then lessons.

do appreciate all the views

 

Jambo,

PM replied to mate

Chris

---------- Post added at 05:12 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:11 PM ----------

thanks again for all the advice I think i'll try a heavier line first then lessons.

I would do it the other way around, any decent DH instructor should have a few lines for you to play with

Where are you based?

Chris

 

Originally Posted by jambo42
the point i am trying to get across is that the rod is very very soft and in my opinion not at all suitable for a beginner casting heavy tips, but remember this is MY opinion.

I agree, heavy tips can be a pain to cast, but lessons and have a play with lines

 

accepted, no offence taken rod:thumbs:

 

Just a passing thought about 'lessons.' No question about the value of learning from someone who knows what he/she's doing and can verbalize the who/what/where/when of casting (single or two hander).

But where the unsung hero of the lessons is a good instructor will have several rod/line set ups for the trainee to try. One size does NOT fit all.

When I'm giving 'lessons' (no I don't charge) I'll always have at least 4 different rod and line set ups. Frequently as many as six. Person will cast them all and will always settle down to one or two that 'just work for him.'

And conversely, at least one that just 'doesn't.' For me as an example would be the line of T & T rods. Folks who have them just love them; for me its like trying to cast string with broom handle. zero affinity. Another one (for me) that's a total loss are the CND's. My fishing partner LOVES THEM and really rips line .... for me they're a plastic club.

As the Grouse would say: 'Horses for courses.' But the end game is I'd never recommend anyone 'buy' a given rod/line combo until he/she's cast a few combination's and finds one that 'matches up' with their style of casting.

End game is an accomplished caster can pick up darned near any rod/line and cast well with same ..... but why do they still have their 'favorites' they take when they go fishing?

And I won't even get into line choices, Dear God over here you probably (easily) have upwards of 60++ to choose from. Add the variations in head lengths and that number probably doubles. But that goes back to the heart of my comments above, unless you have deep pockets those lessons will save you a hell of a lot of money.:thumbs:

Just my .02 cents.

 

the op is asking about multi tip lines, there should be no reason at all to roll cast any multi tip line before performing a spey cast.

The opening post specifically mentions an intermediate line. In my world an intermediate line sinks, it obviously floats in yours. I also assumed there might be a sinking tip with the multi tip line.

 

Thanks for all those contributions - I'm defo going to get a few lessons about 25 years ago I had about an hours instruction from a Gillie on the North Tyne, what a belter of river, and was able to make a fair fist of spey casting a very heavy ABU outfit, floating line as I recall - then I never touched a salmon rod for about 20 years and thought oh I can pick that up again easy - not so - if you don't use it you lose it.

Lessons here I come - any recommendations for casting instructors in Northern Ireland


once again genuine thanks for all comments.

 

You won't find much better than Leslie Give him a call Stone falls Specimen Trout Fishery & School of fly fishing Home Page

Regards

Brian