According to Fly Fishing & Fly Tying magazine, Hardy & Greys have been bought by the Amercian group, Pure Fishing Inc. I hope they bring more production back to Alnwick.
Hardy & Greys now part of Pure Fishing Inc
cutlass
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Isn't part of the problem here that there are so many good rods out in the market and some at really competitive prices? I agree the "made in uk" is what makes hardy special but their rods are too expensive for most people regardless of where they are made. They will have to stay in the far east, source good blanks and drop their prices to prosper in my opinion.
I'd love to see them go back to their roots as much as anyone but as a person who spends quite a bit on fishing tackle I still wouldn't buy one of their rods. Give me a quality guideline, loop or orvis rod at a good competitive price any day.
I'd love to see them go back to their roots as much as anyone but as a person who spends quite a bit on fishing tackle I still wouldn't buy one of their rods. Give me a quality guideline, loop or orvis rod at a good competitive price any day.
Let me guess Jambo you own a hardy rod? If I'm paying £500 plus for a rod then I want to know that my rod has been hand made in the uk or America and not in the Far East in the same factory that any number of different makes of rods are being made.
There is no way the blanks are better than any other top end brands and none of them are made beside Hardys.
I honestly think it is disgusting they want to charge the prices they do for a rod made in the Far East and they don't exactly have the best returns policy either but that's another story.
There is no way the blanks are better than any other top end brands and none of them are made beside Hardys.
I honestly think it is disgusting they want to charge the prices they do for a rod made in the Far East and they don't exactly have the best returns policy either but that's another story.
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900 Posts
sorry you are wrong, i own a helios2 among others but i have owned hardys zenith sintrix rods and i can assure you they are by no means inferior.
Coors, I agree with you to some degree.
There is in my view a shortsightedness on Hardy's part. If marketed correctly they should have gone along the lines that they sourced the best carbon in the world. UK carbon manufacture has been overtaken by the Far East, Korean carbon technology is some of the best in the world.
Another issue is where the furniture is added to the blank, my view is the blanks should be sourced in Korea and then built into rods over here.
I'm toying withe the idea of getting a Sintrix, I have no issues with the blank being made in Korea but I would rather the rod was built here.
The best example is Free Spirit, their top end rods are blanks from Japan which are custom built here. The rods lower in the range are blanks from Korea built there as well and I have to say there is very little difference with the top end ones. The best specialist rods on the market bar none!
There is in my view a shortsightedness on Hardy's part. If marketed correctly they should have gone along the lines that they sourced the best carbon in the world. UK carbon manufacture has been overtaken by the Far East, Korean carbon technology is some of the best in the world.
Another issue is where the furniture is added to the blank, my view is the blanks should be sourced in Korea and then built into rods over here.
I'm toying withe the idea of getting a Sintrix, I have no issues with the blank being made in Korea but I would rather the rod was built here.
The best example is Free Spirit, their top end rods are blanks from Japan which are custom built here. The rods lower in the range are blanks from Korea built there as well and I have to say there is very little difference with the top end ones. The best specialist rods on the market bar none!
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11,131 Posts
Just read this piece by the late great Steve Parton. You can find it -
GRAPHITE RODS-THE TRUE COSTS-SEXYLOOPS
This article by 'Straight Talking' Steve, should be read by EVERY angler IMO.
It takes away a lot of the mysteries and conjecture, surrounding this common topic 'The price of top end rods' and are they worth it.
I suspect that some forum members who have purchased top end rods, may feel slightly let down, after reading same.
IMHO, an angler who splashes out £600 on a rod, will get a rod that will only performs as well as many rods in the £200 range.
The benefits of paying an additional £400 for many anglers is purely psychological, fueled by the Hype/Marketing/Advertising and above all the perceived prestige of the brand.
The perception of quality/performance, which anglers have held about Hardy Rods, goes back a long way to the time when they were indeed world leaders in their field. The reality today, is far removed from this continued and false perception.
Douglas
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570 Posts
At the end of the day, it what suits your casting style and the depth of your pocket. The fish don't care where its made or how much it cost whether it be Hardy, Sage Shimano owned Loomis or sub £60 rod.
Just need a tree branch in the wrong place or a missed placed cast with a gold head and your four piece multi sectioned rod could have another section quite quickly.
My rod room has a range high end Hardy, Sage carbon for salmon and the same for rivers also have Hardy in glass fibre all bought new in the 70's which still enjoy using from time to time, Hardy's name in the 70's counted then. But I finding my rod of choice now is sharps cane 88 9' rod and gearfly reel for Grayling and Brownies.
And I am seeing more and more cane being used plus a far amount of quality glass appearing on the bank.
Just need a tree branch in the wrong place or a missed placed cast with a gold head and your four piece multi sectioned rod could have another section quite quickly.
My rod room has a range high end Hardy, Sage carbon for salmon and the same for rivers also have Hardy in glass fibre all bought new in the 70's which still enjoy using from time to time, Hardy's name in the 70's counted then. But I finding my rod of choice now is sharps cane 88 9' rod and gearfly reel for Grayling and Brownies.
And I am seeing more and more cane being used plus a far amount of quality glass appearing on the bank.
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9,681 Posts
Presumably those Alnwick made blanks from the subsidiary company HACL are what are now going into the new "Hardy Bros." badged range as the Made in England rods? Also, does that mean Pure have acquired HACL along with the Hardy Greys parent company?
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2,648 Posts
Jeff, I believe this quote is correct ~....does that mean Pure have acquired HACL along with the Hardy Greys parent company?
I don't know what Pure's plans are for the future, but suspect Hardy will go on and on (despite our resident doom mongers)
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Ah sorry, didn't read the report fully Makes sense though, if they are acquiring parent Hardy company.
What I was getting at was that it actually seems to be only the Artisan range blanks that are made at Alnwick, under the new Hardy Bros marketing banner
Hardy & Greys Ltd - Hardy Bros
By implication, the rest appear not to be. I hope the HACL operation keeps going, nice to see some main brand blanks still being made here, a la Daiwa Scotland
Makes sense though, if they are acquiring parent Hardy company. What I was getting at was that it actually seems to be only the Artisan range blanks that are made at Alnwick, under the new Hardy Bros marketing banner
Hardy & Greys Ltd - Hardy Bros
By implication, the rest appear not to be. I hope the HACL operation keeps going, nice to see some main brand blanks still being made here, a la Daiwa Scotland
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4,683 Posts
They could turn Alnwick around and still make rods their
they would Like SAGE and all the rest import the blanks and them assemble them like ( sorry Jaguar do ) here in the UK
Where do they get the Carbon to make the blanks?
better to buy it in and make them in the UK saying ( which ) they will be made (up ) in the Uk
When I was in Cuba meet a Canadian Guy who will only buy Hardy ( does not like USA ) made rods etc, did not want to inform him Hardy were in trouble and where selling out to the Big Apple
.
Sorry to say Hardy have always bin a law until there self's in the old days only selling to certain dealers, but then they got caught out and had to down grade who they sold to so as to complete with the USA and others on rods and reels.
The big question is if I put a cheap imported rod into your hands wrote Hardy on it , then the same again with Hardy made in the fast east ( Korea ) where they are now coming from would you know the difference ?
sure there will be a lot of People say YES! But really?mg:
they would Like SAGE and all the rest import the blanks and them assemble them like ( sorry Jaguar do ) here in the UK
Where do they get the Carbon to make the blanks?
better to buy it in and make them in the UK saying ( which ) they will be made (up ) in the Uk
When I was in Cuba meet a Canadian Guy who will only buy Hardy ( does not like USA ) made rods etc, did not want to inform him Hardy were in trouble and where selling out to the Big Apple
.
Sorry to say Hardy have always bin a law until there self's in the old days only selling to certain dealers, but then they got caught out and had to down grade who they sold to so as to complete with the USA and others on rods and reels.
The big question is if I put a cheap imported rod into your hands wrote Hardy on it , then the same again with Hardy made in the fast east ( Korea ) where they are now coming from would you know the difference ?
sure there will be a lot of People say YES! But really?
mg:
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2,648 Posts
I can't work out if SINTRIX™ is exclusively made by Hardy Composites, or if they licence the patent - and who to? Anyone know?Ah sorry, didn't read the report fully
What I was getting at was that it actually seems to be only the Artisan range blanks that are made at Alnwick, under the new Hardy Bros marketing banner
Hardy & Greys Ltd - Hardy Bros
By implication, the rest appear not to be. I hope the HACL operation keeps going, nice to see some main brand blanks still being made here, a la Daiwa Scotland
If not I'll ask the question.
I believe the separation of what they now refer to as the "Hardy Bros" brand and the rest of Hardy/Grey should be further developed, and be better defined.
[I'd like my Hardy Bros Range Rover (demonstrator) in time for September please]
sorry you are wrong, i own a helios2 among others but i have owned hardys zenith sintrix rods.
Hi Jambo,
Sorry I said you own a hardy rod, I should have said you have owned. Just out of curiosity if you have owned more than one hardy rod why did you get rid of them if they are so good?
I would like to clear up the fact that I'm sure they are good rods and on a par with other high end rods but the fact is they are made in the Far East. It has to be cheaper to do this than make a rod in the Uk or the USA. Please someone correct me if I'm wrong but I'm sure I am not. Yet they charge the same prices as other high end rod makers but they don't have the same overheads. How can this be right?
If Hardys were cheaper then it would be a different story but it is not and this is probably one of the factors that has helped the fact they are being bought over.
Hi Jambo,
Sorry I said you own a hardy rod, I should have said you have owned. Just out of curiosity if you have owned more than one hardy rod why did you get rid of them if they are so good?
I would like to clear up the fact that I'm sure they are good rods and on a par with other high end rods but the fact is they are made in the Far East. It has to be cheaper to do this than make a rod in the Uk or the USA. Please someone correct me if I'm wrong but I'm sure I am not. Yet they charge the same prices as other high end rod makers but they don't have the same overheads. How can this be right?
If Hardys were cheaper then it would be a different story but it is not and this is probably one of the factors that has helped the fact they are being bought over.
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1,644 Posts
You are not wrong and thats the excact reason why i don't own any hardy zenith sintrex or loop rods.. Yeah yeah i know the Korean (old redington factory) are better at cutting the same 3M prepreg or just the nano resin system with there own graphite and wrapping it around a steel shaft then loomis or any american or uk based company can. And sure there are some great casting and fishing rods amongst them.. Fact is they are not that much cheaper to make abroad, but the fact they are rolled wrapped and finished for bowl of rice wages really takes the shine of it for me.
Even the loop blanks go from 369 euro and upwards, thats sage Winston thomas&thomas money..
If gatti's were a bit more robust i would buy nothing else, probably the best casting rods i ever casted, made in europe italy.. Well best along with the old redington nano titanium quarz or for short ntiq.. Yep nano tech from more then a decade ago, 2001 from the top of my head, actually the same factory that makes loop and hardy blanks now..
Everybody on here seems to see things as a rip off these days, i remember me as a teen drooling over the new sage orvis scott Winston catalogues.. The very first time i held a payne graphite rod in my hand, i always had a thing for the beauty and the romance behind it all.. But well can't blame it on anyone, everybody is struggling and haven't you heard, pure fishing took over hardy so like some would say get a shakey they are the same blanks, well better actually they go for peanuts...
Rant over
J
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22,414 Posts
One of my first Board room meetings in a company 'we' had taken over and they were doing 'We're the best' high fives. Four of the six were cleaning out their desk in less than an hour. Next few months everyone else was 'heads down' working.
'Mr. Evans, may I ask you a question?'
'Sure, what's the question?'
'What do you think is wrong here?'
'What do you think is wrong here?'
Guy in his late '20's, : What was his job at that point? He worked in the Mail Room! Fellow was a AVP in less than an hour.:thumbs
Edit: My office had three glass walls, anyone wanted to see me just look. Some times I was making kids Christmas Toys, or tieing flees in Cheno Pants and a LL Bean striped shirt.
I covered their' "Six" and they covered mine. Found out years later I had a 'Nick-name;' someone let it slip and I damned near burst into tears in Joy. The People understood.
Always had a Summer Company picnic; one year (doing very well) every one put their name in a hat for a drawing. First year no one knew. First five got an all expense trip to Hawaii. The next five to Disnyland. Brain dead where the next five familes went.
But they were all in and pre-loaded credit cards for 'extras.' When 'they' got there they were given little gold hammer like things to pin on their shirts. He/she/they want don't even ask about the 'tab.'
The young fellow? His job was to walk around, sit in a chair or on the floor and 'How can we make this better.' People would talk to him; some times good, some times bad. but talk.
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4,683 Posts
In the very early days the
rods that were well made in the UK and ( you looked up to ) were Hardy: Bruce Walker : Sue Burgess: plus a few others that I am sure will pop up on here.:thumbs:
In this time and age you have got to try and keep one step in front of your competitorsmg:
Sorry to say but Hardy never did this and I think when they stated just selling their goods to any supplier this was the down turn.
Remember going to their Christmas sale in Pale Mail:thumbs:
Maybe we will all be barking up the wrong tree and the new owners will see there still is a market for a Hardy Rod ( Assembled in the UK ) and marketed with 100% service : returns etc. ( this is were Orvis have cornered the market ) what ever some may say about Orvis the service into days market is good ( just look at SKB ( now taken over by Chris ) service is what makes a business :thumbs:
rods that were well made in the UK and ( you looked up to ) were Hardy: Bruce Walker : Sue Burgess: plus a few others that I am sure will pop up on here.:thumbs:
In this time and age you have got to try and keep one step in front of your competitors
mg:Sorry to say but Hardy never did this and I think when they stated just selling their goods to any supplier this was the down turn.
Remember going to their Christmas sale in Pale Mail:thumbs:
Maybe we will all be barking up the wrong tree and the new owners will see there still is a market for a Hardy Rod ( Assembled in the UK ) and marketed with 100% service : returns etc. ( this is were Orvis have cornered the market ) what ever some may say about Orvis the service into days market is good ( just look at SKB ( now taken over by Chris ) service is what makes a business :thumbs:
Over the last decade the functional differences between premium banded fly rods and mid priced rods has reduced massively. So much so that, unless you are a master fly-caster and can appreciate the subtle differences, they are effectively the same. And that is the reason for the ever more ficticious marketing hype we have seen - and the demise of Hardy's.
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672 Posts
I was a died in the wool Hardy fan - now I am not so sure.
I for one will not be buying a new Hardy until things have settled down and I can see the quality control and after sales service in action.
Looks like my next rod will be a Sage Circa having examined all the alternatives(that I had considered) at John Norris last week. Staff there have advised me that the only company - apart from Orvis - who offer proper support to its customers is Sage. And at the moment, until Hardy (or whatever they will come to be called) sort themselves out, I shall keep my powder dry.
I know some people have expressed chagrin at their dealings with Hardy in the past but when I have had to contact and deal with them re repairs etc; I have never had an issue.
PS The Sintrix is nice - but I want to know I can get it repaired or a replacement section sorted easily - which is yet to be seen.
Fingers crossed that things come out right for all concerned - employees and customers:thumbs:
I for one will not be buying a new Hardy until things have settled down and I can see the quality control and after sales service in action.
Looks like my next rod will be a Sage Circa having examined all the alternatives(that I had considered) at John Norris last week. Staff there have advised me that the only company - apart from Orvis - who offer proper support to its customers is Sage. And at the moment, until Hardy (or whatever they will come to be called) sort themselves out, I shall keep my powder dry.
I know some people have expressed chagrin at their dealings with Hardy in the past but when I have had to contact and deal with them re repairs etc; I have never had an issue.
PS The Sintrix is nice - but I want to know I can get it repaired or a replacement section sorted easily - which is yet to be seen.
Fingers crossed that things come out right for all concerned - employees and customers:thumbs:
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