[BobP]

Cunning.... they sell us more kit by coming up with the terribly devious plan of focussing on a style that requires less kit

Actually it is quite devious. some of those tenkara rods, which are just a telescopic pole with a cork handle, cost as much as a decent fly rod. £250 or more. No reel seat, rings, whippings or anything.

 

[boisker]

Actually it is quite devious. some of those tenkara rods, which are just a telescopic pole with a cork handle, cost as much as a decent fly rod. £250 or more. No reel seat, rings, whippings or anything.

Amazing, another area you are expert.. the difference between tenkara and trad rods...
I know nothing about the technical difference in construction, so a couple of questions...
So, if the tenkara rod costs £250... perhaps it's a £600 plus trad rod without fixtures and fittings?
Is there any chance a 14' tenkara rod, even though it is.... and I quote... "just a telescopic pole"... technically challenging to make so light and balanced.

I don't know the answers, I can only assume you do?

 

[flyfisher222]

Like reels?

And rods at all, come to that..

Reels have been in use for 100 plus years so they are 'customary'. Also useful.

Personally I have no reason whatsoever to purchase any modern 'large arbor' reel in whatever 'instantly CNC machined' design and colour is fashionable this week .
Because I am perfectly competent in handing line and anyway there are always occasions to wind loose line in.

Some say Tenkara is 'cheaper'. No it isn't - if we purchase it at all we almost always purchase it in addition to what we have already. Which just makes the "What shall I use today?" decision harder.

But of course we are all free to purchase whatever we fancy whether we 'need' it or not.

 

[BobP]

Amazing, another area you are expert.. the difference between tenkara and trad rods...
I know nothing about the technical difference in construction, so a couple of questions...
So, if the tenkara rod costs £250... perhaps it's a £600 plus trad rod without fixtures and fittings?
Is there any chance a 14' tenkara rod, even though it is.... and I quote... "just a telescopic pole"... technically challenging to make so light and balanced.

I don't know the answers, I can only assume you do?

In May 2018 I was guiding a couple of Americans one of whom brought a built cane fly rod with him that he said he had had specially made for his trip at a cost of $2000. He also brought a tenkara rod that had cost him $500. He caught fish on both.

He offered me a go with the cane rod and I certainly would not have parted with money for it. Heavy and slow and certainly not to my taste.

The tenkara rod which was a 13' version was tried by the other chap who, when using a normal rod, could not a have put a fly within 10' of a fish 15' away, but managed to catch three fish with the tenkara. I tried it and found it very easy to use.

The upshot was that I bought a very modestly priced kit which lives in my guiding outfit for just the sort of occasion as described above and which put a 3lb+ brown in the net for an American lady last year on a difficult day on the Itchen when that was the only sizeable fish caught among 4 anglers on that beat.

Having built a couple of carbon rods for myself I know that things like the reel seat and line guides represent a significant proportion of the cost especially if decent quality is used. Tenkara rods don't have those so I ask myself why they are so expensive.

I note that in the 2018 Sportfish catalogue they were advertising tenkara rods for between £185 and £220, but in the 2019 edition there are no tenkara rods offered for sale. It would seem that others share my views, but as I am fishing at Theale on Sunday with my club, I will ask why Sportfish no longer do tenkara.

 

[JohnH]

Whisper this quietly but - is it just possible that Paul and John ever so slightly over-egged the pudding around Tenkara when it was first introduced and publicised here ? So that we are now seeing the inevitable reaction.

I try to be objective and keep an open mind when it comes to developments in our sport. But Tenkara has always looked to me like an interesting niche technique for specific and limited circumstances. Taking it outside the wheelhouse, in the memorable expression from upthread, is unwise and counter-productive.

 

[BobP]

John,

I have found it quite easy to do and certainly amusing when a good sized fish is hooked, but not likely to tempt me away from my Zenith #4. I could see it giving someone a good laugh on that pool at Qing Ya Zi where you got that big brown but I wouldn't fancy trying to land it on my own!

 

[pedros]

Having built a couple of carbon rods for myself I know that things like the reel seat and line guides represent a significant proportion of the cost especially if decent quality is used. Tenkara rods don't have those so I ask myself why they are so expensive.

For a 12' nymph/spider tool, I'd argue they are very well priced...

I bought a T in 2010, an Iwana from Tenkara USA when they had only been trading a few months, I think I paid about £110 back then. Reason for buying one was for the extra reach when tightline nymphing for such a relatively good price - I wasn't disappointed. I still use it, but not exclusively. I find them a real struggle in the wind. Also, as stated previously if you hit a big Grayling on a powerful river like the Welsh Dee can be, you tend to just hold an pray. Some people assume they come into their own on small rivers, which is true, if the small river doesn't have a leafy canopy. That extra length can be a real hindrance on the small rivers I often fish.

Like all rods, I'd argue, they have their time and place. Just like I use a 10' #3 generally on the Dee, or my 9' 4#; my 9' #5 for small still waters; my 10' #5 for still water dries; my 9'6 #7 for reservoir pulling.

So no - they didn't take over the world, but Tenkara has its place.

 

[flyfisher222]

I see you can even buy a 'Tenkara' water bottle. Made out of plastic and all the way from the USA.

It's got a vaguely 'Japanese' graphic on it

 

[morayfisher]

This is what I got, cheap enough to try it out.

11FT/12FT/13FT Tenkara Fly Fishing Kit - The Complete Collection

I think when I bought it, it was the price of two pairs of socks from the 'cost of socks thread'

 

[Guest]

One has to bear in mind that Tenkara is rooted in Japanese culture and requires a spiritual approach to be fully appreciated. It is a way of achieving a higher conscience by using the most simplest of tools in an unspoilt surrounding, it is a dance with muscle and mind to personal enlightenment in tune with nature, a search for the universal energywave whereupon all seems to happen without thought or premeditation and where all movements become instinctive and fluent as the water itself. Once the pupil feels the river in himself, in the water he is and shares with the river he's fishing in, he will know the true extent of what Tenkara can do to his mind and body.

Now, having said all this, I've never felt the need to adopt a foreign approach to achieve this level of understanding. It is quite possible to attain with the tools our ancestors made, if the state of mind is the same. What westerners need to understand is that there is no easy way to become a master, no emperors clothes to hide your incompetence in, if you want to become a master and broaden your spiritual horizon, start with the tools that have been lying around you for hundreds of years and use them in the water that runs through your veins. Once you achieve that you'll discover there is no need for a substitute, how exotic and mysterious it may seem to your western mind. A grasshopper in London can jump as high as one in Tokio.

 

[flyfisher222]

One has to bear in mind that Tenkara is rooted in Japanese culture and requires a spiritual approach to be fully appreciated. It is a way of achieving a higher conscience by using the most simplest of tools in an unspoilt surrounding, it is a dance with muscle and mind to personal enlightenment in tune with nature, a search for the universal energywave whereupon all seems to happen without thought or premeditation and where all movements become instinctive and fluent as the water itself. Once the pupil feels the river in himself, in the water he is and shares with the river he's fishing in, he will know the true extent of what Tenkara can do to his mind and body.

Now, having said all this, I've never felt the need to adopt a foreign approach to achieve this level of understanding. It is quite possible to attain with the tools our ancestors made, if the state of mind is the same. What westerners need to understand is that there is no easy way to become a master, no emperors clothes to hide your incompetence in, if you want to become a master and broaden your spiritual horizon, start with the tools that have been lying around you for hundreds of years and use them in the water that runs through your veins. Once you achieve that you'll discover there is no need for a substitute, how exotic and mysterious it may seem to your western mind. A grasshopper in London can jump as high as one in Tokio.

WOW!

You've been watching 'A River Runs Through It' again. With Japanese subtitles

 

[Guest]

WOW!

You've been watching 'A River Runs Through It' again. With Japanese subtitles

WOW! How shallow can a human mind get. I could wade through you without even getting wet.

 

[morayfisher]

Accidentally clicked ‘thanks’ for the post above.
I only meant to say this is getting a little weird, we could just discuss Tenkara instead.

 

[Guest]

Accidentally clicked 'thanks' for the post above.
I only meant to say this is getting a little weird, we could just discuss Tenkara instead.

Are you saying the philosophy behind Tenkara is unimportant or just to you?

I cannot remove your "thanks" but you could ask admin.

 

[morayfisher]

Are you saying the philosophy behind Tenkara is unimportant or just to you?

I cannot remove your "thanks" but you could ask admin.

I'll not bother admin, it's hardly the end of the world.
If the 'philosophy of Tenkara' is important to some then that's fine by me. I just dabble with it occasionally as an addition to regular fly fishing.

It was your "I could wade through you without even getting wet" comment I found a bit weird.

 

[Guest]

I'll not bother admin, it's hardly the end of the world.
If the 'philosophy of Tenkara' is important to some then that's fine by me. I just dabble with it occasionally as an addition to regular fly fishing.

It was your "I could wade through you without even getting wet" comment I found a bit weird.

Ah, you could have been more precise then, a bit like Tenkara, the more precise you get the further it brings you. But it's perfectly fine with me to find what I say weird, you're not the first and you will certainly not be the last. What you may find weird may sound normal to others though, what a dull world would we be living in if we all accepted things to be weird by definition because one person says so.
I just finished a 360 page book on the subject because I had the chance, I should say the privilege, to live a life connected to water and had the weird idea to pick up a fishing rod when I was five. It's been my wading staff (here we go again) through the river of life, so I didn't need any book or movie to dream myself a life of contemplation and self-questioning in the presence of nature, I lived it and fished for answers all along the way. Now I'm old and left the rod at home, I still find answers even without wading in the river, I can listen to it in my head. Weird, isn't it? He who does not find wisdom in water should take another look. No, don't worry, I'm not going to torture your mind, it takes a lifetime to rise above the pain.
I've been searching for the spirit of water all my life and I've been lucky to have found it, that will make me mad as a hatter in many eyes although I'm firmly on the ground with both feet and still capable of sound and down to earth reasoning, it's the eyes of disbelief I'm wondering about now. Do they see? Do they really see?
This one is not in the book, it popped up thinking about your gut reaction. Did it sprang out of your fear for the unknown or was it just a verbal confirmation of your conviction I must be weird? Anyway, enough words, here is what I thought, it may have been thought before by many far more intelligent than me, but it rang a bell in my (weird) head:

You can find inspiration in spirituality, but you cannot find spirituality without inspiration.

Don't break your head over it, Moray, just let the water in your mind flow.

 

[morayfisher]

You seem to be in a happy place Johan, I am genuinely pleased for you.

All the best.

 

[ohanzee]

Ah, you could have been more precise then, a bit like Tenkara, the more precise you get the further it brings you. But it's perfectly fine with me to find what I say weird, you're not the first and you will certainly not be the last. What you may find weird may sound normal to others though, what a dull world would we be living in if we all accepted things to be weird by definition because one person says so.
I just finished a 360 page book on the subject because I had the chance, I should say the privilege, to live a life connected to water and had the weird idea to pick up a fishing rod when I was five. It's been my wading staff (here we go again) through the river of life, so I didn't need any book or movie to dream myself a life of contemplation and self-questioning in the presence of nature, I lived it and fished for answers all along the way. Now I'm old and left the rod at home, I still find answers even without wading in the river, I can listen to it in my head. Weird, isn't it? He who does not find wisdom in water should take another look. No, don't worry, I'm not going to torture your mind, it takes a lifetime to rise above the pain.
I've been searching for the spirit of water all my life and I've been lucky to have found it, that will make me mad as a hatter in many eyes although I'm firmly on the ground with both feet and still capable of sound and down to earth reasoning, it's the eyes of disbelief I'm wondering about now. Do they see? Do they really see?
This one is not in the book, it popped up thinking about your gut reaction. Did it sprang out of your fear for the unknown or was it just a verbal confirmation of your conviction I must be weird? Anyway, enough words, here is what I thought, it may have been thought before by many far more intelligent than me, but it rang a bell in my (weird) head:

You can find inspiration in spirituality, but you cannot find spirituality without inspiration.

Don't break your head over it, Moray, just let the water in your mind flow.

I once asked a Japanese master if he would show me how to throw a pot(on a potters wheel) he said no, I was not ready, I didn't understand then but I do now, he was right, but I am ready now and he is gone, he taught me to never not be ready again, but the sacrifice is not knowing what he could have taught me, that I can now never have.

 

[aenoon]

I once asked a Japanese master if he would show me how to throw a pot(on a potters wheel) he said no, I was not ready, I didn't understand then but I do now, he was right, but I am ready now and he is gone, he taught me to never not be ready again, but the sacrifice is not knowing what he could have taught me, that I can now never have.

F ook me.
Alan does zen.
Must be the cosmic way he fishes!
Regards
Bert

 

[Guest]

I once asked a Japanese master if he would show me how to throw a pot(on a potters wheel) he said no, I was not ready, I didn't understand then but I do now, he was right, but I am ready now and he is gone, he taught me to never not be ready again, but the sacrifice is not knowing what he could have taught me, that I can now never have.

The only unexpected and best observation thus far, my whole point is Tenkara is rooted in the Japanese mindset, just as all their other crafts and arts are. It's not about tying a piece of nylon to a pole and flogging a fly on the water, you can make it just that by buying a 60£ Tenkara set and a day ticket on your local fishery or river. To the Japanese, the masters of simplicity and thoughtfulness, it is a carefully constructed means of fly fishing with stricter rules than any other type of fishing and meant for local mountain-streams. It has a history of more than 200 years and was only introduced here in the last decade. With all the inevitable consequences, so now in these times where fly fishermen are desperately defending their niche fishing as the only true type of fly fishing and dismissing all other techniques, we have Tenkara to add to all that. It's no surprise most people practicing it are just flogging a fly on a pole. They use it in competitions now… .
For the record, I've only had Tenkara rods in my hands as a tackle dealer, as I said I've never felt the need for learning the technique to experience a feeling I already know.