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They say a trout has a brain the size of a pea?

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#21 ·
Tangled said:
The problem with brain size is that it's not a good indicator of what we think it is. Lots of creatures have relatively bigger brains than we do (including ants). But ironically it's actually a fish (eel) that has the largest amongst back-boned animals. It's got an fabulous name

"The bony-eared assfish holds the record for the smallest brain-to-body weight ratio of all vertebrates.[5]"

Hats off to the naming taxonomist.

Click to expand...
Don't shoot the messenger...
You are clearly saying there in your first paragraph that the bony-eared assfish has the largest brain relative to it's body size among vertebrates.

You then go on to say that it "holds the record for the smallest brain to body weight ratio of all vertebrates". This got me thinking that surely that means it has a really small brain relative to it's body size. Thirty seconds on google produced the following.

"The fish's claim to fame is that it has the smallest brain weight - body weight ratio of all known vertebrates! In a study of the ass-fish's brain (better than a study of the brain-fish's ass!) researchers found a 40 gram fish with a brain weighing less than 30 mg. That's less than 1/1000th of the body weight!"

There we have it, the bony-eared assfish has the smallest brain relative to it's body weight of all vertebrates.

Understanding Ratios?

Andy
 
#27 ·
bbamboo said:
The answer to the problem is always the same a new expensive rod ,you should know that by now ??
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Don't forget the new expensive fly line to go with it, you know, the one you are convinced will cast more accurately, just that bit further and present even better! Plus you'll need at least a dozen new flies to go with them, just to make sure. :D ;)
 
#30 ·
eddleston123 said:
Fish must have some type if memory/recall - If not, why is it on Catch and Release stillwaters that the trout become increasingly difficult to catch.

Douglas
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They can even forget. Why else do animals have more trouble returning to the wild after spending more time with humans? All living things have instincts, but all have a life of learning and experiencing to add to their survival skills and abilities. That is what makes us and them individuals. Fish learn too, they take decisions, but not by rational thinking, their actions are driven by instinct and personal memory. It's not thinking as we know it, but it's personal. They can have a mind of their own, so to speak.
 
#31 ·
eddleston123 said:
Fish must have some type if memory/recall - If not, why is it on Catch and Release stillwaters that the trout become increasingly difficult to catch.

Douglas
Click to expand...
Aye, there was a programme on great white sharks in South Africa where they were getting them to attack a lure in the shape of a seal. It was quite crude - just a bit of rubber mat cut in the shape of a seal. At first the whites were attacking this thing and coming out the water with it, the way they do with seals...

Image


But after they had been fooled by it a few times, the sharks stopped going for it. They had to go away and make a much better imitation of a seal... had eyes and whiskers and teeth and everything...

And they came back with it and the sharks attacked the close copy one no bother. I thought - just like stockie rainbows! ?
 
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#32 ·
Tangled said:
The problem with brain size is that it's not a good indicator of what we think it is. Lots of creatures have relatively bigger brains than we do (including ants). But ironically it's actually a fish (eel) that has the smallest amongst back-boned animals. It's got an fabulous name

"The bony-eared assfish holds the record for the smallest brain-to-body weight ratio of all vertebrates.[5]"

Hats off to the naming taxonomist.

Click to expand...
I don't think the key is relative brain size. I think the key is the relative speed of time. For a human, a second passes quickly - we can't do much during one second. For a fly, a second passes much slower. It can do a lot more in the same time than we can. That is why they are able to take off when we try to swat them. They see us coming towards them in slow motion - because their second lasts longer than ours.

I reckon trout are closer to flies, than to us. So, the one second that we have to react to a fish taking our fly is more time for the fish's survival instincts to play out and tell it to abort the take, and it has plenty time to do it. It sometimes seems to us that they are lightning fast, but it is more like we are in slow motion.

Or something like that... ?
 
#34 ·
Cap'n Fishy said:
I don't think the key is relative brain size. I think the key is the relative speed of time. For a human, a second passes quickly - we can't do much during one second. For a fly, a second passes much slower. It can do a lot more in the same time than we can. That is why they are able to take off when we try to swat them. They see us coming towards them in slow motion - because their second lasts longer than ours.

I reckon trout are closer to flies, than to us. So, the one second that we have to react to a fish taking our fly is more time for the fish's survival instincts to play out and tell it to abort the take, and it has plenty time to do it. It sometimes seems to us that they are lightning fast, but it is more like we are in slow motion.

Or something like that... ?
Click to expand...
Einstein time dilation by relative mass eh? I don't think I'm ready to buy that yet :)

But there's likely to be time effects with size simply because of nervous transmission time. The bigger the beast the longer it takes for the brain to communicate with the limb. Eyes, ears and noses are (usually) placed close to brains.

We have the autonomic reflex system where the comms path to the brain is bi-passed so as to not slow our emergency actions down. We feel the heat after we've dropped the hot pan.

When I was reading about brain size it got complicated pretty quickly but it seemed that neuron density, physical architecture and transmission speed across the brain was more important than sheer size. Shrews aren't that smart but they have the largest relative mammalian brain apparently. Whereas the crow in my garden is incredibly clever, sometimes I can almost see him thinking.
 
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